AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS? (a question for Freepers)

August 22nd, 2002 | Sabertooth

[Sabertooth]

This is a vanity post, let's get that straight from the start.

Perhaps the most vain aspect of it is the conceit that it might stay on topic, but I'm going to give it a whirl.

One of the more contentious species of threads encountered on Free Republic are those dealing with the subject of America's immigration policy, particularly with regard to the Illegal Aliens currently in our country. According a range of reasonable sources, the estimates of their numbers here currently here range from six to thirteen million. Whatever the actual count, there are quite a few people now in violation of American immigration law.

One subtopic that inevitably arises is the question of Amnesty:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

That's the question I'd like to put forward to the members of Free Republic.

Almost as inevitably on threads dealing with this subject, flame wars erupt. It's not my purpose to instigate another round of that, they're rather predictable. So I'd like to ask that your comments, if you're inclined to share them, focus on the big picture of American immigration policy, with particular attention to the subject of Amnesty. I'm not interested in the stock and gratuitous divisiveness of race-baiting or referring to the President as "Jorge," or anything of that nature from any quarter. It achieves nothing, it's sulphurous methane heat with no light shed.

I'd also like to avoid ad hominem ambushes. I'm genuinely interested in learning the collective feelings of Free Republic members on this subject. If you're gonna post, I'd like to ask that you ante up with your opinion on the question at hand before engaging the discussion with others. No taking potshots from the obscurity of the sidelines. I'll post my opinion below at #1.

Fair enough?

So, once again, here's the question:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

[madfly]

Great, sorely needed, FR poll by Sabertooth!

[hchutch]

Are you willing to bolt if you don't get exactly the bill you want?

I only disagree with four of the provisions in that bill. I'm willing to work for the other 48. I'd think a lot of people would gladly take 92.3% of what they want.

Because keep in mind that I will do everything in my power to keep those provisions I disagree with in that bill from passing. Furthermore, I would work to defeat any candidate that would vote for those provisions I disagree with in the primaries.

You want effective control of illegal immigration, which FreeRepublic stands for (http://www.freerepublic.com/about.htm) and which I feel is done through those 48 provisions I support, then I'm willing. But four provisions of Gekas's bill go beyond that, and go too far, and I WILL fight them in the legislative process, and I will fight them in the political process, and I will not quit, nor will I run. I will back any Republican over a left-winger, but I will be fighting in the primaries every time.

If you want a fight over less than 8% of the provisions ont his bill, then that's your decision. Personally, I'd rather see a coalition built on the 92.3% of the bill we AGREE on.

I will fight for what I believe on this issue, and let the chips fall where they may.

[Sabertooth]

I only disagree with four of the provisions in that bill. I'm willing to work for the other 48. I'd think a lot of people would gladly take 92.3% of what they want.

Tell you what... you only have to agree with 10% of what I want, and we've got a deal:

No Amnesties.

[hchutch]

If those currently illegaly in the country, but who are working and who have committed no other crimes than illegal entry and who have not received any welfare are instead tracked into a guest worker program with no chance of citizenship, I'll take that deal.

[Sabertooth]

If those currently illegaly in the country, but who are working and who have committed no other crimes than illegal entry and who have not received any welfare are instead tracked into a guest worker program with no chance of citizenship, I'll take that deal.

Here's one problem with your plan:

You say that we can't patrol our borders now. That's with no Amnesty. Past experience with Amnesties and common sense tell us that if your plan succeeds, we'll have even more Illegals crossing the border. Since you don't have a plan to stop them now, you won't have a plan to stop them then.

What will your response be to the next wave of Illegals that your Amnesty invites?

I can only guess that it will be another Amnesty, since the border problem will only be more insurmountable.

How is that really different than having an open border?

[grania]

No amnesty ever. And anyone who is here illegally should never be allowed in the country again. (That just might give illegals some incentive to get home before they're deported.)

[janetgreen]

admit that we all benefit from a diverse society that includes hard working immigrants

Obviously you must benefit financially or in some way or the other, but the rest of us obviously don't. We're tired of paying the bills. Mexico and South America has given us enough "diversity" to last us many generations, thank you.

[rintense]

No amnesty. Period. Nuff said.

[leprechaun9]

NO AMNESTY FOR ANY ILLEGAL! I am a first generation American (no hypenation) and I strongly believe that EVERY immigrant enter our country legally and within an agreed upon quota!

[4Freedom]

"I will fight for what I believe on this issue, and let the chips fall where they may."

The first question you have to ask yourself is what percentage of American Citizens don't like this bill as it is and for the same reasons you don't?

Do 10% or 20% of Americans agree with you?

Why would the rest of us have to compromise with 10% or 20% of you?

[Sabertooth]

Hey, RWP!

Nice to see ya... did you check out this thread? Pretty civil, no?

Just one troll so far (from any side), and we're closing on 250 posts.

[Bullish]

I'm against it. Unfortunately, Jorge W. Welfare is for it.

[AzJohn]

No amnesty at all. Don't think we need a moratorium on immigration, but I suspect we would benefit from a reduced level of immigration for several years to give this country a chance to catch up with the recent influx.

Agree with deporting criminals, but I think that for the most part enforcement should consist of enforcing the law against hiring illegals, so as to reduce the demand.

Kudos for an excellent (and very civilized) thread.

[sweetliberty]

"I support requiring all legal immigrants be able to speak english and be sponsored by family or friends as a prerequisite for gaining entry."

I heartily agree with them being required to speak English after a reasonable time and certainly before being allowed to become citizens. And sponsors could only be American citizens. This BS of printing ballots in God knows how many languages is way over the top. Anybody who cannot speak the language has no business voting in our elections. Period.

[Sabertooth]

I'm against it. Unfortunately, Jorge W. Welfare is for it.

I appreciate your position on Amnesty, but I'm trying to keep the nickname "Jorge" out of it.

It just disintegrates these threads, and a lot of otherwise open-minded folks avoid them because of it. Fair enough?

Thanks.

[FITZ]

Amnesty gives legal status and residency, which then eliminates their ability to work those low paying, hard-work jobs Americans won't do because they now must be paid minimum wage even though legalization doesn't give them English ability or job skills so very many end up on some kind of welfare program and their previous employers must find a new batch of illegals who can work for low wages.

Amnesty to people who committed felony fraud to obtain high paying jobs that Americans will work rewards criminals who committed document fraud as well as illegal entry into the US.

Amnesty rewards law-breakers and puts them in line ahead of those who follow our laws and that is unfair. Legal immigrants must find sponsors ----but that program is quite a joke because the sponsors never actually take financial responsibility for their immigrant.

The sponsorship program should be changed so that the sponsor actually takes financial responsibility for a legal immigrant for twenty years ---paying their health care costs and housing, food etc if the immigrant can't work or make enough money.

If the sponsor program was actually where an American citizen agreed to provide the living costs of an immigrant then it wouldn't matter too much if illegals could get a sponsor and then stay.

[Cold Heat]

Up until recently, I felt the same way.

I studied the results of the last amnesty (for the same reasons), and to my surprise we ended up with millions upon millions more illegal immigrants.

The policy is flawed because no controls are implemented. Families and relatives who make it encourage more friends, family and others to try. It never stops!

It is past time we had a policy that simply states that if you enter this country illegally, you will be returned. No exeptions. Thousands of people will need to be hired to implement this. Let's get it done now.

[FITZ]

been hard working members in the lower echelons of our capitalist structure

What will the illegal who was in the lower echelons do for a living when they are turned into legals who must be paid minimum wage and benefits? Their employers won't want them and will "need" to replace them with more illegals. Making an illegal legal doesn't give them English ability or job skills or an education and without their lawn mowing job how can they make a living for themselves and families?

[FITZ]

I think there is tremendous benefit to having workers who are Mexican citizens being allowed to come into this country to do those tasks we no longer want to do. Examples include farm labor, gardening, hotel and garment work, etc. A well-run guest worker program would be a win-win proposition.

I could agree with a temporary worker program that lets them be here legally and go only to those jobs that might possibility fit that description, jobs that Americans really don't want. They should return to Mexico but if they decided they really wanted to become American, they should learn English and other skills and do it legally.