AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS? (a question for Freepers)

August 22nd, 2002 | Sabertooth

[Sabertooth]

This is a vanity post, let's get that straight from the start.

Perhaps the most vain aspect of it is the conceit that it might stay on topic, but I'm going to give it a whirl.

One of the more contentious species of threads encountered on Free Republic are those dealing with the subject of America's immigration policy, particularly with regard to the Illegal Aliens currently in our country. According a range of reasonable sources, the estimates of their numbers here currently here range from six to thirteen million. Whatever the actual count, there are quite a few people now in violation of American immigration law.

One subtopic that inevitably arises is the question of Amnesty:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

That's the question I'd like to put forward to the members of Free Republic.

Almost as inevitably on threads dealing with this subject, flame wars erupt. It's not my purpose to instigate another round of that, they're rather predictable. So I'd like to ask that your comments, if you're inclined to share them, focus on the big picture of American immigration policy, with particular attention to the subject of Amnesty. I'm not interested in the stock and gratuitous divisiveness of race-baiting or referring to the President as "Jorge," or anything of that nature from any quarter. It achieves nothing, it's sulphurous methane heat with no light shed.

I'd also like to avoid ad hominem ambushes. I'm genuinely interested in learning the collective feelings of Free Republic members on this subject. If you're gonna post, I'd like to ask that you ante up with your opinion on the question at hand before engaging the discussion with others. No taking potshots from the obscurity of the sidelines. I'll post my opinion below at #1.

Fair enough?

So, once again, here's the question:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

[rmlew]

Unless their families where in Texas before 1835 or the rest of the Southwest before 1845, they are not returning.
The truth is that Texas was sparsely popluated. Mexico could not hold it from the native Indians. That is why Mexico invited Americans to settle it in the early 19th century. (Their mistake.)

[AZ GRAMMY]

NO AMNESTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hchutch]

I'd probably want to defer to Poohbah to a large extent on mechanics. Perhaps the use of UAVs could help, or we could remove the incentives (prosecute employers of Illegals after the amnesty period expires to the fullest extent of the law) to come over illegally.

I'm willing to listen to options on that front.

[GmbyMan]

>>> Do I understand correctly that you favor a partial Amnesty?

Would the Illegal Aliens you'd Amnesty be counted against our current immigration caps, or would they break them?
<<<

No. I favor a guest worker program which allows those in it an oppurtunity to apply for amnesty eventually. This is a complicated question and since there have been many benefits seen by our country from the onset of illegal immigration, we need to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. As to our immigration caps, I may be alone, but I would increase them. I am a believer in legal immigration (especially given that my Mother is a naturalized citizen, I am grateful for legal immigration). This is a fine line but the vast majority of those working illegally in our country would like to leave and come back. I think we need to facilitate such a process.

As to the question of giving those who have played by the rules after the guest worker plan is put into effect and kept their nose clean. I would give those who have not been on a yo-yo going back and forth from Mexico an oppurtunity to become a citizen after some arbitrary number of years. I would guess that I would not count it to our present caps because, as I stated above, I am in favor of lifting those caps.

For what it's worth, I think anyone who wants to be a citizen from any nation whether a guest worker in our country or not needs to be extremely proficient in English (at least at a high school level). I also think that after my plan is put into effect, we should continue to increase the budget of the INS (at the expense of the welfare state) in order to further regulate this guest worker program.

[hchutch]

I like your ideas a lot. Not perfect, but they're a very good start to solving the problem.

[glock rocks]

no amnesty. nada.

[mhking]

Chebby trucks

Like a rock, man. Like a rock.

[Zack Nguyen]

...Mexican citizens being allowed to come into this country to do those tasks we no longer want to do.

I have often heard the argument that illegal immigrants perform work that Americans do not want to do. But how do we know this is true? How have we discovered that there are certain jobs that no American will do? Why won't they?

Or should the argument rather be, "illegals perform jobs that no Americans would do at the below minimum wage salary that many illegals are paid to do them."

[Valin]

Build a 1,500 mile double concertina wire wall on the border and have it watched by the National Guard!!
What makes you think this would work?
Do you understand what this would do to our economy removing how many 100s if not 1,00s of works and putting them on the border, and for how long.

Then deport all the current illegals
Great I agree. Now who are they, and where are they, and how do we id they?

I don't think we have to worry much about the Canadians
Ever wonder why we don't have this problem on our northern border?

[ken5050]

Very interesting thread, and you're to be congratgulated for somehow having managed to douse, ( or maybe "suppress" is a better word ) the flames so far.....

I'm opposed to any amnesty for illegals, but would like to expand the discussion, with your kind permission, in two related topics:

1. Why not pose the question as to whether one would be in favor of a 10 year moratorium on legal immigration into this country? I'd wager that if put to a national referendum, an overwhelming majority of Americans would be in favor of halting immigration. But then, you see, if we suspend LEGAL immigration, then we'd have to start deporting illegals...

2. Assuming that one was in FAVOR of an amnesty for all illegals, the big problem, (and so far in skimming this thread I haven't seen it mentioned) is that we would then have to admit all the extended family members of our new "legals"...that's the way they law works now. Thus, we might have an immediate influx of tens of millions more. Then what would we do?

[MossbergPump]

There should be NO amnesty for illegal aliens, none of them.

But isn't this a bit like preaching to the choir?

[Militiaman7]

To clearify my position.

Absolutely no amnesty!

[doc30]

Thank you. I'm there in spirit already :)

[spodefly]

No amnesty for any illegal aliens, for any reason, ever.

If your entree into this country began by showing no respect for its laws, there is no reason to believe that you will ever be a positive addition.

Further, as regards immigration in general, the numbers should be limited to a figure well below what they are now -- how many more sewage treatment plants, landfills, roads, hospitals, power generating plants, parking lots, schools, etc. do we need to build.

We are not in the same situation we were 100 years ago with regard to mass numbers of immigrants, and having room for them to live and build families, and hopefully, assimilate into our culture. Our cities are crowded, our roads are crowded, our power generating plants are approaching max capacity, essential services are already strained, sewage and fresh water infrastructures are maxed out. Our growth needs to be restrained and contained and moderated.

[Teacher317]

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

Sure! Why not? Of course, this should be after serving jail-time for breaking our laws (or alternatively, deportation), after requesting residency and citizenship status in accordance with our laws and paperwork (in ENGLISH ONLY), and not being allowed to draw tax dollars until they have contributed for a period of 4 years. Then, definitely, we should welcome them to America, as Americans.

[mhking]

I don't have all the answers, but I'm darn sure that kicking out folks who are busting their butts to make a better life for themselves is NOT the right answer.

If'n they're illegal, they've gotta go.

'tooth, you and I started playing with this last month; poorer black folks recognize that the poorer illegals are taking their jobs away from them in many areas. There are plenty of hand-wringing bedwetters that would love to point to the old adage, "Bring me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses." But of course, they don't have any remedy for our tired, poor, huddled masses. Cynthia McKinney's campaign grabbed homeless and un/underemployed folks to hold signs in the sweltering heat early this week, here in metro Atlanta, promising them $100 for the day's work, only not to pay them. At the same time, in various places around Atlanta, illegals stand gathered on street corners during morning rush, trying to get day-laborer's jobs. Many of them end up getting them - the contractors don't care, as long as the work gets done.

Granting amnesty is akin to throwing open the flood gates and yelling "C'mon in!" Because for every illegal you grant amnesty to, they've got a brother, cousin, father, aunt, grandmother, son, daughter, wife, uncle four times removed or some other relative that they want to include. You think the border patrol has a time of it now? You ain't seen nothing yet. Watch the flood gates open, literally.

Oh, and you think Vicente Fox wants to stop this? Of course not! I'm sure he's got folks encouraging the poor, the indigent, the sick, the criminals, the dregs of Mexican society to "run for the border" and I'm not talking about Taco Bell.

No, Vicente Fox would love Texas to become Tamaulipas del Norte.

[KansasGirl]

ROFLMAO!! That's hilarious!!

[Jtowner]

No amnesty for any illegals. That's like giving a bank robber $100,000 for his trouble. You can't reward breaking the law, and illegal entry is just that. No amnesty for illegals and no more legal immigration for 5 years. Assimilation and English required.

[Iscool]

One poster replied, Or should the argument rather be, "illegals perform jobs that no Americans would do at the below minimum wage salary that many illegals are paid to do them."

In my neck of the woods, migrant workers move back and forth to Mexico and around the U.S...While they are here, they immediately go to the welfare office that is set up for them for cash, medical, etc...

There's a local iron foundry that pays low wages...They solved the problem, not by offering a decent wage, but by hauling illegal Mexicans up from Chicago...Must be an illegal Mexican clearing house in Chicago...But they are doing this legally...The Fed Gov subsidizes this company to the tune of 4 dollars per hour per illegal employee...

And for this reason and others like it, the legal immigrants are against amnesty...

The system is in place...It's not going to change...George B is not interested in getting rid of the illegals...He's trying to placate the complainers...That's us...And if we talk about it too loudly, we may be branded as terrorists...

To get rid of the illegals, you have to eliminate their source of instant prosperity...

No anmesty...

[LS]

By the way, the notion that from 1787 to 1970 people didn't come to this nation "illegally" is just preposterous. We kept track of most who came here through the major seaports, but anyone could come in through less traveled ports, settle on land, and "become" a citizen easily.