The disunited states

Townhall.com ^ | August 15, 2002 | Cal Thomas

[discostu]

Here's the key right here:

For a start, how about pride in history? Do you really think that a school that has a 30% Mexican minority--or anything close to it, given the current dispensation to be "politically correct" among "educators,"

It's not the Mexicans' fault. It's the PC dipsh!ts. Don't blame the Mexicans for something they're not doing. As I've said repeatedly, the Mexicans were instrumental in getting EASL vaquished in AZ, they hated it. They wanted their kids to be treated like American kids. They didn't want any kind of Mexican oriented history classes, they didn't want them to learn English in a slowed down course, they just plain didn't want anything special. So yes. I do think... no I know with absolute certainty that we can have schools that are 30% Mexican and not give up anything. I went to a school that was 40% Jewish and the only thing we "gave up" was teachers scheduled tests around Jewish holidays. If there are moron PC dipsticks trying to screw up the curriculum "for the Mexicans" shut them down. Blame the PC dipstick, not the Mexicans. If you actually read what I said I noted that we would have to direct people on where to live. It was a hypothetical situation to outline the fact that there is plenty of room in this country and it is physically possible (though psychologically unlikely) to give everyone huge lots with no neighbors and not give up any food supply or make people live in untenable areas (though if you note where people do live the definition of untenable area gets pretty miniscule, there's a couple that lives at the bottom of Grand Canyon, groceries are two day trip involving a 12 mile hike and a helicopter trip). Just because people are drawn to a particular area doesn't mean the nation is overcrowded. That area of the nation might be, but the nation as a whole isn't. And anybody living in one of these areas and bitching about the overcrowding needs to shut up. If you live in one of America's major metro-complexes, especially the ones back east where they still built the European way, you're going to be living in a crowd. Major metro-complex= crowd. I knew that when I was 8. If you don't want to live in a crowd don't live in a major metro-complex. In a major metro-complex learn to love crowds. One of the great guessing games coming up to census 2000 was would Wyoming maintain statehood, the numbers were showing they could have a low enough population to be downgraded to a territory (which has the added bonus of making the residents immune to federal taxation). They stayed above the line though. But there's still a whole lot of nothing out there to live in for people that want wide open spaces.

[discostu]

Well since you ignored EVERYTHING I said. Bye. Read it or ignore it. But don't reply pretending you have a point when I've already contradicted and shown the falsehood in your "point" half a dozen times in this thread.

[AM2000]

One of the great guessing games coming up to census 2000 was would Wyoming maintain statehood, the numbers were showing they could have a low enough population to be downgraded to a territory (which has the added bonus of making the residents immune to federal taxation).

I didn't know that a state had to have a certain number of people. This would seem odd, given that many of the states out West were much more sparsely populated a few decades ago, or even a century ago, than they are now. Do you have a reference I can look at? Thanks much.

[discostu]

I think it's tied to when they capped the House. Something in there says that if you can't muster up X people you don't get to be represented. Remember Wyoming only has the automatic 1 congressman, I think them and New Hampshire are the only ones that low. Which isn't such a bad thing for NH, I've seen people with bigger butts than NH, but Wyoming is a big state, with almost no people in it. I was only hearing about it third hand from a coworker from Wyoming who's brother is a sherriff and still lives there. Never really dug into it, it was a cigarette break conversation. Seemed to amuse the crap out of the people in Wyoming though, at least the ones related to my coworker.

[AM2000]

I tried a number of searches on google and found nothing that would indicate that your coworker was right. According to the U.S. Census (click here), every state is assigned a minimum of one seat. The rest (435-50) of the seats are then distributed according to an algorithm that is based on population. IOW, even if Wyoming whittled down to one person, they'd still get one seat in the House.

If you have further information to contradict this, I'd like to see it.. the very idea of Wyoming losing statehood amuses me too :)

[snippy_about_it]

My cable was out for three days, got it fixed just tonight, I was happy. Thanks for the ping but now I am depressed again. :(

[FITZ]

You did not show that the Mexican government isn't actively participating in this invasion --it is, they are very clear that they have authority over the "immigrants" who are to remain Mexican citizens. It's not the same with previous large scale immigration when those governments had nothing to do with the terms, nor tried to keep jurisdiction over the new Americans.

[FITZ]

They wanted their kids to be treated like American kids.

If they did the bilingual classrooms would be empty. A very few do fight having their kids placed in these programs but at the school my kids attend it's already one-to-one English versus Spanish classrooms. Bilingual means they will be taught all subjects in Spanish. One third of the population here doesn't speak English.

[lavaroise]

Actualy some foreign born people know more about US history and respect more the founding fathers than many US born people, our dumbing down education has been more effective unfortunately.

What is alarming is that this dumbing down is now even in our national policies and civic duties. It is no more mere information stuffed in kids' heads, it's the freaking law you and I are liable to know. It seems these things were not citizens' priorities in congresses, but politicians and elites shoved up their own bills and challenged the citizens to make a decision on it. Citizens do not write bills anymore, and if they did, they are killed even before the vote.

It used to be that AMerica was founded on Christian humility, i.e., you admited your sins before asking something from someone, now, when you admit your sins or speak up, you are called a hater, and when you need something from someone, you have to aggressively demand it and dare the other person refusing, holding this refusal against that person.

Bush pretends to be a compassionate liberal conservative, but he only is an abeter of this hatred, as if we had to cave in to teaching in spanish demands because we are all born a$$ holes, guilty until proven innocent.

[lavaroise]

I think we need to teach a lesson or two to "liberal" America, namely we too want AMerica back, those against will be liable to be called haters, and we will protest, puff red in our faces and stomp our feets until "compassionate" conservatives show compassion to conservatives.

No more nice Mr little Christian polite guy, the enemy needs a lesson for its own good.

[discostu]

Don't you pay attention? That's what they were working to eliminate. EASL stands for English as a Second Language (guess it should be EAASL), ie bilingual classrooms. They were fighting to get Spanish classes reduced to just Spanish class (foreign language studies).

[discostu]

Somebody better tell the immigrants their government sent them. The ones I know fled Mexico because the country sucks, and if Mexico does take over they'll flee again. As I said the legal immigrants have nothing good to say about their government, or the illegals. It's not an invasion. Sorry, I've lived here too long and seen too little change. I ain't buying what you're selling.

[justshe]

***...and I think Hispanic Americans tend to have more abortions than white Americans***

You THINK? Or you have a source? This would be MOST surprising to me, if true.

[justshe]

Expecting full assimilation, re: language IS compassionate. Allowing, INSISTING on, even, a dual culture to be enforced via exclusionary diversity laws is NOT compassionate.

And yes, I am a conservative.

So I understand the basis behind the "compassionate conservative". It is all about personal responsibility and accountability....and NOT putting up enabling legislative roadblocks to the achievement of full potential.

Democrats want to keep aLL separate and diverse so the
groups' can war with each other, and fail, and fail..... and thus NEED Democratic help.

At least, that's my take on it.

[FITZ]

Somebody better tell the immigrants their government sent them.

A lot of them know their government is squeezing them out, their irrigation water was cut off so their farms dried up, the laws keep them in dire poverty, the government ----including Fox's doesn't change a thing to improve conditions. The elites want to rid the country of anyone who might cause them problems because they keep all the wealth. They are resisting the formation of a middle class.

[snippy_about_it]

There is an INS office in the building where I work. Everyday I see people from the Third World with their babies and extended families.

They try to ask for directions to the floor the office is on and cannot speak English, but it is obvious where they are going so they don't need to try and elaborate.

Just last week a couple of fellows stopped me and all they could manage was holding up their hands and saying "fingerprints, where go fingerprints". I politely directed them all the while growling, why don't you just go back home.

Future generations will regret this influx more than I do now.

[discostu]

Yeah, and you think people that have fled that government once wouldn't do it again? If this really is a stealth invasion orchestrated by the Mexican government it will be the greatest plan to ever fail misserably. If they wound up taking over this area all the reasons this area is a major source of wealth to America would leave, within 10 years it would be just as destitute and F'd up as the rest of Mexico.

[FITZ]

If they wound up taking over this area all the reasons this area is a major source of wealth to America would leave, within 10 years it would be just as destitute and F'd up as the rest of Mexico.

That's what I'm afraid of ---all along the border you see fastly increasing poverty levels and falling wages in many areas. Doctors are leaving, the middle class is leaving, the third world keeps moving in. They'll elect governors like Tony Sanchez in Texas and bring the rest of the state down. Even Dan Morales said Sanchez was just like a Mexican politician buying himself an election and the voters don't see through it.

Someone on here said we need to probably take Mexico by force and build that country up, there's probably no other way to get those laws changed down there that make things so bad for so many but so great for a very few.

[discostu]

Well certainly the only way to control immigration from Mexico (especially the illegal kind, the border is too long and too rugged to ever truly defend) is to fix Mexico's economy. That's why people stopped leaving Europe in droves. People go where they can feed their family. I don't know about taking them over by force, I think their economy can be fixed without such drastic measure.

I haven't seen any significant change in the border area. I know that's the mantra of these discussions but I haven't seen it. I haven't seen the economy drop (well lately, but the whole nations economy dropped), haven't seen more Mexicans and I haven't seen fewer white people. As for Sanchez, are you saying he's buying an election like how the Kennedy clan has been buying elections for 50 years? I don't think that's a Mexican thing either.

[rmlew]

Anybody that thinks I hate my country is an idiot and had to put some serious effort into mis-reading what I said. This is obvious by how you cut up the post for your response. I clearly contradict your interpretation many times right after you inserted your own comments.

I'm not the one who said that if our culture can't handle immigrants it deserves to be destroyed.

Also, I've never said we should stop or even limit immigration. What I'm against is any for of limiting immigration that picks who comes in based on some foolish idea of "cultural compatibility". A few folks on this thread have proposed that our immigration should be 80% from Europe. Given that Europe only account for about 1/6 of the world's population that has levels of patent silliness that shows the people in question have unreasonable issues with certain cultures.

Why should we make sure that our immigrants look like the world?

All this paranoia about La Raza and La Reconquista is stupid. These groups are primarily drunk college kids looking for sex with other drunk college kids. How pathetic would a culture have to be to be overthrown by them? Don't confuse NCLR with La Raza, they aren't the same group. MECHA is an offshoot of the real La Raza (as real as that ever was). NCLR is an obnoxious mouthpiece organization. Niether is a threat, but it's two very different kind of shmucks.
I've seen what Chicano groups do on campus. They have almost succeded at getting rid of Columbus day at Columbia. Small item, yes, but they are indoctrinating our future elite to hate America. Their influence is far more than their numbers as they have free hand in bullying "Anglo" students.

Marx was right about the problem but wrong about the solution. At the time Marx was around the workers of the world (not just here but Europe as well) were treated worse than dogs. And no immigration didn't play into this, you can tell because the places people were emigrating from had the problem just a bad as we did. What Marx didn't understand was that this "system" wasn't a result of capitalism, it was a result of classism. Hence why his solution can never work, he's trying to get rid of capitalism to fix the problems of classism, that's like emptying your toilet to fix a clogged sink.

Population mattered in Europe. From the 1820's to the 1920's Europe's population exploded. That helped crate a large number of uneducated urban workers.

The Mexican immigrants in AZ aren't calling for socialist BS. They were the group leading the charge to get rid of English as a Second Language. All the "trouble" seems to be coming from the ones in CA, gee what a surprise. They aren't the only socialists in CA. There are immigration "watch dog" groups (mostly seriously misguided religious groups) that call for all kinds of socialist BS, but when you see their rallies the whiteness of the groups is blinding.
Untill the left reved up their smear campaign most Hispanics supported prop 209 in CA. However, the Mexicanas fell in line with their leaders rather quickly.

A country, a people, a person, proves it's worth by standing up to the strain. I have a firm belief in my ability to rise to any challenge, and if I fail I take all the blame. I have a firm belief in America's ability to rise to any challenge, and if we fail WE should take all the blame.

1. If America fails the whole world loses. If you fail, it is of no great general importance.
2. We are to blame to a large degree. We need to fix our cultural problems. Immigration prevents this.

Whining aobut indading brown people is doing nothing more than setting us for failure. If you want to shut down all immigration for a while great, I do think we could do with a few years to absorb and adjust. If you just want to stop Mexican immigration, well that's playing fast and lose with paranoic fantasies and I'm not signing up because I know they're fantasies.

I want to suspend or greatly reduce immigration for a decade. I also want to expell all illegals. As for Mexico, we would be better off helping the Mexicans in Mexico rather than acting as thier release valve.