Camps for Citizens: Ashcroft's Hellish Vision

Los Angeles Times ^ | Aug. 14, 2002 | Jonathan Turley

[JohnathanRGalt]

Camps for Citizens: Ashcroft's Hellish Vision

Attorney general shows himself as a menace to liberty.

by JONATHAN TURLEY, Jonathan Turley is a professor of constitutional law at George Washington University.

Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft's announced desire for camps for U.S. citizens he deems to be "enemy combatants" has moved him from merely being a political embarrassment to being a constitutional menace.

Ashcroft's plan, disclosed last week but little publicized, would allow him to order the indefinite incarceration of U.S. citizens and summarily strip them of their constitutional rights and access to the courts by declaring them enemy combatants.

The proposed camp plan should trigger immediate congressional hearings and reconsideration of Ashcroft's fitness for this important office. Whereas Al Qaeda is a threat to the lives of our citizens, Ashcroft has become a clear and present threat to our liberties.

(. . . .)

Ashcroft is a catalyst for constitutional devolution, encouraging citizens to accept autocratic rule as their only way of avoiding massive terrorist attacks.

His greatest problem has been preserving a level of panic and fear that would induce a free people to surrender the rights so dearly won by their ancestors.

[Recovering_Democrat]

well, that's another great straw man, fogarty. enjoy your paranoia without me, I'm not going to engage it any longer. When you come out of your funk, check out a history book, and read about civil liberties during the Civil War and WW2.

g'nite.

[Elsie]

Anyone here recall Corrie Ten Boon? Boenhoffer?

I do!

---

(At least they are not coming after ME for any reason.)

[DreamWeaver]

Bump

For later reading.

[Constitution1st]

Feel free to question, and think, all you like; this is still great commonsense.

[freeeee]

Maybe you could provide evidence that such a declaration was being drafted.

Certainly. This is well known, by the way. I haven't heard of anyone contending it. If they do, it would only in an attempt to rewrite history.

Is it 'War'? (ABC News, Sept 13)

I could post more links for you, but it would be easier if you just did a google search for "Rep Bob Barr + declaration of war".

[headsonpikes]

I think I grasp the point you are making. The problem with this new view of the world, namely a world in which we will perpetually be terrorized by irreconcilable madmen, is that it is a mad world. Living in that world is a prospect too unbearable to contemplate.

These domestic terrorists, such as they are, cannot exist without support from wealthy Islamic elements abroad. War must be waged to its bloody conclusion with the Islamo-Fascists overseas, including any any and all sovereign states that harbor elements of their forces.

America must be prepared to either wage effective war, or submit to a domestic regime of decreasing privacy and liberty. Let the American State be fearsome to America's enemies, not to her citizens.

I vote for War, if anybody's counting.

[mysterio]

And here is the ultimate irony - the very tools a Republican administration has put into being will be the very shackles a future administration will use to their advantage and continue shredding the US Constitution.

What's ironic about that? Lately, the Republicans have caught up with and nearly surpassed the democrats in ignoring and gutting the Constitution. Hearing Democrats talk about civil liberty is what's ironic. And hearing Republicans defend these unAmerican policies and proposals. No thanks. I'll no longer be sending either party my vote.

[#3Fan]

Is everyone on FR with the name John Galt in their handle a little bit touched? It seems like it. :^)

[Recovering_Democrat]

The most relevant quotes from the article:
But the [War Powers Act] provides for an exception that is more relevant now than ever: "a national emergency created by attack upon the United States."

Seems to more than answer your question: additionally, the 9/14 Resolution also gives the President power. Another excerpt that might lend credence to the conspiracy-theorists:
Rep. Bob Barr, R-Ga., today introduced a formal declaration of war against all international terrorists and their sponsors.

No indication is given the President "killed" that introduction. Indeed, if the Congress wanted to pass it, they could have. No indication has been made that Bob Barr himself opposed the final action. He, in fact, voted for the Resolution.

The fact is, there is no Constitutional instruction regarding the manner in which War is Declared: only that Congress has that power. Search the document high and low, you won't find a prescription for the declaration of war.

[hoosierham]

JLW should be on trial for treason of course.

And I fervently object to your objection of trials of CITIZENS based solely on costs. We spend billions every year on entertainment; if we have to forego a new computer game, a trip to the theatre or park in order that justice be done, then so be it.

[jonascord]

My point. Go to the Holocaust Museum, and look up a Mordecai Anielewicz, or Yitzhak Zuckerman. And perhaps we should send the names to Ashcroft. However, we will probably be classified as extremists.

[DaGman]

You are either totally naive or a member of TIPS. It seems like it wasn't that long ago that there were conservative postings here and on other sites expecting the very same things that Ashcroft is doing to be done by Clinton et al. Paranoia was rampant pre-Y2K.

How ironic that its the conservatives who are now the ones willing and wanting to inter American citizens and unconstitutionally stripping them of their God given rights.

Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?

[Recovering_Democrat]

I'm not naive and I'm not a "member of TIPS" per se, though all Americans should want to participate in a plan that will rid us of the terrorists within.

I am, however, smart enough to realize that civil "rights" and "liberties" have routinely been suspended in various ways during war time---and they've always been restored. Always.

I'm glad America wasn't terrified of the government during WW2--during an admittedly liberal administration. After all, FDR and his crowd rationed food, raw materials, and consumer goods like shoes and gasoline! Such rationing, a restriction of civil freedoms if ever there was one, was NECESSARY FOR VICTORY.

If many of you were around then, I shudder to think how happy the ENEMY would've been--you'd be saying, "Dammit, Roosevelt, you can't tell me what to buy and when!! Nazi Schmazi! This is my FREEDOM!"

Oh, btw, for those of you keeping score: once the war was over, the rationing was stopped.

[Recovering_Democrat]

Go to the Holocaust Museum, and look up a Mordecai Anielewicz, or Yitzhak Zuckerman. And perhaps we should send the names to Ashcroft. However, we will probably be classified as extremists.

What an irresponsible remark. You've got no evidence to back up what you're saying...it is just an ad hominem attack upon John Ashcroft. Actually, you're saying he's an anti-Semite, aren't you? If so, this may be a violation of Jim's rules.

[ravingnutter]

Where did I bring up costs in 116? You must be thinking of someone else...

[Recovering_Democrat]

I think Ashcroft is quickly getting a reputation as someone who would not shirk from building death camps if that is what it will take to attain a goal...

This is pure idiocy. You offer no evidence to this, just a pure, unadulterated, ad hominem attack on our Attorney General. Consider yourself reported for ABUSE on this thread. I am not a moderator, but if I were, you'd be pulled.

Unjustified attacks on the morality and character of anyone--especially this man--are irresponsible at best and blatant evil at worst.

[Admin Moderator]

"I think Ashcroft is quickly getting a reputation"

He may be, but if he is it is thanks to a concerted propaganda effort against him.

If the post I just removed accurately depicts your beliefs, you may want to find another website on which to converse. Thanks, AM

[jonascord]

I don't buy that assumption. I am trying to state that the steps from an 'internment' camp to a 'prison' camp to a death camp are too short. And there are people who either can't see it, or don't have a problem with it.

If John Ashcroft had bitten his foot once, that is excusable. Happenstance, jumped on by an eager and hostile press.

However, the AG has consistently come up with the most egregious suggestions to control 'terrorism', I.E. the TIPS program, "Carnivore," "Airport Security" against MoH winner Joe Foss, the Boston FBI/Mob connection.

BUT! Starting in 2001 there have been no Federal investigations of voter fraud in Chicago, St. Louis or Florida, he has pointedly ignored the vast number of holdovers from Bubba's '93 purge of the Federal District Attorneys, or busting the Leahy Wall in the Senate by gunning for the Torch and Hildebeast. What about real, actual high crimes, like the Marc Rich pardon, China-gate, the 900 FBI files, Travel-gate, and on and on and on. Where are indictments of Jon Horiuchi and Richard Rogers, who are living, protected from the public of the US, at Quantico??? Why is Bubba clinton still globetrotting, instead of defending the inexcusable in open court? Where is Ashcroft? Instead of acting like the Chief Law Officer, and defending the Constitution, he has got a staff that dearly wants more power. If he isn't running a Little Dachau in Gitmo, and he could be, for all you or I or anyone else knows, then why is this Administration so shrouded in secrecy? We had enough of Executive Privilege in the last gang of thieves.

I protest the concept that any objection to the actions of the Current Administration is treason.