Posted on 08/14/2002 1:42:48 PM PDT by krodriguesdc
you have harped on post#93 enough - as if that proves your entire case...
this was meant to say that, further research will show that there is a link to SIDS and DPT...
No, actually, the DPT/SIDS link has been disproved for many years, ever since the "back to sleep" program cut SIDS death almost in half since the early '90s.
that study leaves many questions as to cause and effect...
There is nothing in the study in any way, shape, matter, or form, that states or implies a "cause and effect" between DPT and an increase in SIDS.
you can't, for instance, using your own logic, that this study proves that DPT is beneficial as far as SIDS goes...
As I said earlier, it doesn't PROVE anything, but it does suggest a very stong association, and it (DPT causing a DECREASE in SIDS) should be studied further.
there are at least as many studies indicating that DPT is linke3d in some way to an increase in SIDS...
You mean current studies? I'm not aware of any.
That, of course, begs the question. Since vaccination rates have remained steady in the past decade, why have SIDS rates dropped so much?
What words would those be?
you have harped on post#93 enough - as if that proves your entire case...
Well, either you completely misread the abstract, which doesn't say much about your medical knowledge or reasoning skills, or you are lying about what the study says.
Either way, it isn't pretty. And I'll continue to bring it up until you prove your case or admit you were wrong.
'Brain damage in children ?is caused by jab mercury?"
Are you now saying that it isn't MMR that causes autism? Because if you are, it invalidates a lot of the anecdotes that says it does.
OK TomB here is more information for you to Pooh Pooh...Citations SIDS
Bernier RH, et al (1982). Diphtheria-tetanus toxoids-pertussis vaccination and sudden infant deaths in Tennessee. J Pediatr. 1982 Sep;101(3):419-21. No abstract available. PMID: 7108666; UI: 82268390. Tennessee cluster stirs inquiries (Fresno Bee DPT report 1984)
Torch, W.S., 1982. Diphtheria-pertussis-tetanus (DPT) immunization: a potential cause of the Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS). Neurology; 32(4): A169 abstract).
"At the 34th Annual Meeting of the American Academy of Pediatrics, presented a study linking the DPT shot with SIDS. Torch concluded: "These data show that DPT vaccination may be a generally unrecognized major cause of sudden infant and early childhood death, and that the risks of immunization may outweigh its potential benefits. A need for reevaluation and possible modification of current vaccination procedures is indicated by this study." --Harris CoulterMortimer EA Jr, et al (1983). DTP and SIDS. Pediatr Infect Dis. 1983 Nov-Dec;2(6):492-3. No abstract available. PMID: 6657506; UI: 84095192.
Baraff LJ, et al (1983) Possible temporal association between diphtheria-tetanus toxoid-pertussis vaccination and sudden infant death syndrome. Pediatr Infect Dis. 1983 Jan-Feb;2(1):7-11. PMID: 6835859; UI: 83169234.
Because diphtheria and tetanus toxoids pertussis (DTP) vaccine is routinely given during the period of highest incidence of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS), this study was undertaken to determine if there is a temporal association between DTP immunization and SIDS. Parents of 145 SIDS victims who died in Los Angeles County between January 1, 1979, and August 23, 1980, were contacted and interviewed regarding their child's recent immunization history. Fifty-three had received a DTP immunization. Of these 53, 27 had received a DTP immunization within 28 days of death. Six SIDS deaths occurred within 24 hours and 17 occurred within 1 week of DTP immunization. These SIDS deaths were significantly more than expected were there no association between DTP immunization and SIDS. An additional 46 infants had a physician/clinic visit without DTP immunization prior to death. Forty of these infants died within 28 days of this visit, seven on the third day and 22 within the first week following the visit. These deaths were also significantly more than expected. These data suggest a temporal association between DTP immunization, physician visits without DTP immunization and SIDS. PMID: 6835859, UI: 83169234 "They found a statistically significant excess of deaths in the first day and the first week after vaccination, i.e., a "temporal association." They rejected the use of a "control group," and instead relied on the intuitively obvious assumption that "there should be no temporal association between DPT immunization and SIDS were there no causal relationship between these two events." I have not found any criticism of this article for relying on "anecdotal evidence." This study was not financed by the US Government but apparently by the UCLA School of Medicine and the Los Angeles County Department of Health Services."--Harris CoulterTorch, W.C., 1986 a. Characteristics of diphtheria-pertussis-tetanus (DPT) postvaccinal deaths and DPT-caused Sudden Infant Deaths Syndrome (SIDS): a review. Neurology (suppl 1); 36: 148 (abstract).
Torch, W.C., 1986 b. Diphtheria-pertussis-tetanus (DPT) imunization may be an unrecognized cause of Sudden Infant Death (SIDS) and Near-Miss Syndrome (NMS): 12 case reports. Neurology (suppl 1); 36: 149 (abstract).
Walker AM, et al (1987). Diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis immunization and sudden infant death syndrome. Am J Public Health. 1987 Aug;77(8):945-51. PMID: 3496805; UI: 87268250.
We compared the recency of diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis (DTP) immunization in healthy children with birthweights greater than 2500 gms who died of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) to that of age-matched reference children, using a modified case-control analysis. Focusing on very narrow time intervals following immunization, we found the SIDS mortality rate in the period zero to three days following DTP to be 7.3 times that in the period beginning 30 days after immunization (95 per cent confidence interval, 1.7 to 31). The mortality rate of non-immunized infants was 6.5 times that of immunized infants of the same age (95 per cent CI, 2.2 to 19). The latter result and to some extent the former appear to be ascribable to known risk factors for SIDS. Although the mortality ratios for SIDS following DTP, as estimated from this study, are high the period of apparently elevated risk was very short, so that only a small proportion of SIDS cases in infants with birthweights greater than 2500 gms could be associated with DTP. PMID: 3496805, UI: 87268250"This study supports a link between the DPT shot and "sudden infant death syndrome." The authors examined the records of all children born in the Group Health Cooperative of Puget Sound between 1972 and 1983 to see how many had died of SIDS. Total births recorded during this period were 35,581, but of them only 26,500 were eligible for the study. Not all deaths of infants during this period were considered to be SIDS. "All deaths which on the basis of death certificate diagnosis, hospital discharge data, and pharmacy use taken together could be clearly ascribed to causes not related to immunization were excluded." Ultimately, "SIDS was defined as any death for which no cause could be discerned among infants of normal birthweight and without predisposing medical conditions." But, despite these exclusions and restrictions, the authors found "the SIDS mortality rate in the period 0-3 days following a DPT shot to be 7.3 times that in the period beginning 30 days after immunization." They called the results of this study "worrisome" but consoled themselves with the thought that "only a small proportion of SIDS cases in infants with birthweights greater than 2500 grams could be associated with DPT." A particular criticism to be made of this study is that children with "predisposing medical conditions" were excluded and their deaths were not considered to be SIDS, whereas in actuality children with "predisposing medical conditions" are routinely vaccinated."--Harris Coulter
Noble GR, et al (1987). Acellular and whole-cell pertussis vaccines in Japan. Report of a visit by US scientists. JAMA. 1987 Mar 13;257(10):1351-6. PMID: 3820444; UI: 87141495.
In 1985 twin boys simultaneously succumbed to sudden unexpected deaths two to three hours after vaccination with diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis vaccine (DTP). This occurrence again raises the question of whether an association of sudden infant death (SID) with vaccination is other than temporal. Taking the incidence of SID in conjunction with rates of infant vaccination in the United Kingdom, nine infants would be expected to die, each year by chance alone, suddenly within 24 hours of (and within each 24 hour period succeeding) vaccination with DTP. Twins are at a greater risk of SID than single born infants and occasionally are found dead together. A number of studies into DTP vaccination as a risk factor in SID have shown that SID is less common in vaccinated than in unvaccinated infants. PMID: 3498443, UI: 87325057
- Hoffman HJ, et al (1987). Diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis immunization and sudden infant death: results of the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development Cooperative Epidemiological Study of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome risk factors. Pediatrics. 1987 Apr;79(4):598-611. PMID: 3493477; UI: 87146149
"This sort of attempted (statistical) comparison can only be described as a shambles, a grotesque imitation of scientific method designed to fool the public (and the journalists who are supposed to be monitoring precisely this sort of intellectual dishonesty). It would have made as much sense to interview the first 1600 people they could pick up in the Greyhound Bus Station and ask them about their vaccination status. But this article had its effect. Dr. Torch was effectively silenced, and for years this pseudo-science has been cited as one of the medical establishment's principal weapons in its drive to extend childhood vaccination programs. How do you react when your own government lies to you systematically about life-and-death questions? As I have noted earlier, the answer is political action in the state legislatures, and one weapon in the hands of the public is an understanding of the pseudo-science and pseudo-epidemiology represented by articles like this one."--Harris Coulter
Cherry, J.D. (1988), Brunell, P.A., Golden, G.S., Karzon, D.T., (1988), Report of the task force on pertussis and pertussis immunization, Pediatrics 81:6 Part 11 (June 1988) Supplement pp 936-984.
Excerpt: The rate of severe reactions does not differ significantly between the acellular and whole-cell vaccines when used at 24 months of age. The decrease in severe reactions is slight, if any. The category "sudden death" is also instructive in that the entity disappeared following both whole-cell and acellular vaccines when immunisation was delayed until a child was 24 months of age. It is clear that delaying the initial vaccination until a child is 24 months, regardless of the type of vaccine, reduces most of the temporally associated severe adverse events.Walker AM, et al (1988). Neurologic events following diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis immunization. Pediatrics. 1988 Mar;81(3):345-9. PMID: 3257822; UI: 88143851.
The frequency of serious neurologic events following the administration of 106,000 doses of diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis vaccine at Group Health Cooperative of Puget Sound was determined using a population-based case-control study with disease ascertainment through pharmacy and hospitalization records. There were no cases of acute unexplained encephalopathies in close temporal relation to vaccination. There was the new onset of one serious seizure disorder in the three days following immunization, with 1.13 expected on the basis of chance alone. PMID: 3257822, UI: 88143851
Griffin MR, et al. Risk of sudden infant death syndrome after immunization with the diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis vaccine. N Engl J Med. 1988 Sep 8;319(10):618-23. PMID: 3261837; UI: 88318811.
Griffin MR, et al. Risk of seizures and encephalopathy after immunization with the diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis vaccine. JAMA. 1990 Mar 23-30;263(12):1641-5. PMID: 2308203; UI: 90172513.
"Two studies by teams of epidemiologists headed by Marie R. Griffin represent perhaps the absolute worst I have encountered in many years of reading this literature.......It is amazing that such a study (1988 NEJM) could be accepted by a reputable scientific journal. The reason was doubtless that the study was funded by the CDC and the FDA, and that two of the coauthors (Griffin and Ray) were at the time "Burroughs Wellcome Scholars in pharmacoepidemiology" (whatever that is). Burroughs-Wellcome is, of course, a major producer of the pertussis vaccine. Have these people never heard of conflict of interest?........These kinds of articles bring the Public Health Service, the CDC, the FDA, the "peer-reviewed" journals, and the rest of the medical-industrial-government complex into disrepute. Physicians can swallow this garbage if they want, since they make their living from it, but parents who expect at least elementary honesty from those who call themselves "scientists," and whose children are being maimed and crippled by the very vaccines which are proclaimed innocuous by authors such as Griffin et al. are already taking steps to put this invalid out of its misery. The relations between the public and the vaccine establishment are surely going to get a lot worse before they start getting any better."
and still yet more...here is link...
VAERS & SIDS
2000 - An ongoing sampling of cases reported to VAERS search the Vaccination News site
VAERS ID 134249 An infant received the DTaP, HBHepB and IPV vaccines on 2/8/00. Foster mom found her dead 5 days later. Autopsy performed, preliminary conclusion SIDS. (California)
VAERS ID 134118 An infant received the HepB vaccine on 1/24/00. 7 days later she died of apparent SIDS. (Hawaii)
VAERS ID 134070 An infant received the DTaP vaccine on 1/4/00. 3 days later she was found not breathing, with no pulse. Death certificate lists cause of death as SIDS; autopsy revealed no abnormalities. (Ohio)
VAERS ID 133895/134068 A 5 year-old received the DTP, MMR and OPV vaccines on 1/25/00. Subsequently she developed a fever which progressed to seizures on 2/2/00. She then went into a coma, progressing to organ failure. Life support was discontinued and she died on 2/4/00 (10 days later). Says "Reported cause of death" and that's it. Later her file was updated to say "1 wk post vax, pt devel severe fatal encephalopathy". (New Jersey)
VAERS ID 133896 An infant received the DTaP, HBHepB and IPV vaccines on 1/13/00. 2 1/2 days after the vaccine she died a sudden death - probably SIDS, coroners report pending. She was fine between the vaccination and her unexpected death. The reported writes "I doubt this is related to the vaccines, but wanting to be thorough". (Colorado)
VAERS ID 134672 An infant received the DTaP, HIBV, IPV and HepB vaccines on 1/12/00. There were not signs, no symptoms, found dead 5 days later. Autopsy findings (per grandmother) stated that he died of SIDS. (Texas)
VAERS ID 134249 An infant received the DTaP, HBHepB and IPV vaccines on 2/8/00. 5 days later she was found dead. Preliminary autopsy - SIDS. (California)
VAERS ID 151749 An infant received the DTaP, HBHepB and IPV vaccines on 4/4/00. 9 or 10 days post vax she died of SIDS. (Pennsylvania)
VAERS ID 151748 An infant received the DTaP, HBHepB and IPV vaccines on 3/22/00. 26 days later he died of SIDS. Autopsy being performed. (Pennsylvania)
VAERS ID 151621 An infant received the DTaP, HIBV and IPV vaccines on 5/2/00. The next day he was found apneic and asystolic, tied up in blankets (24 hours post vaccination). (Connecticut)
VAERS ID 151620 An infant received the DTaP, HBHepB, and IPV vaccines on 4/17/00. That same day he died of SIDS. (Mom brought him to the hospital because he had stopped breathing.) (Louisiana)
VAERS ID 151190 An infant received the DTaP, HBHepB and IPV vaccines on 4/6/00. 3 days later, after going to bed at 3AM with mother, he died of SIDS. (Oregon)
VAERS ID 150974 An infant received the DTaP, HIBV and IPV vaccines on 3/29/00. 4 days later she died of suspected SIDS. (Washington)
VAERS ID 152501 An infant received the DTaP, HIBV and IPV vaccines on 1/14/00. 5 days later she died of SIDS. (New Hampshire)
VAERS ID 152417 An infant received the DTaP, HIBV and IPV vaccines on 5/22/00. 3 days later he died of SIDS. (Ohio)
VAERS ID 152301 An infant received the DTaP, HBHepB and IPV vaccines on 4/17/00. Less than 24 hours later he had died of SIDS (official coroner's report confirms). (Ohio)
VAERS ID 152001 An infant received the DTaP, HIBV, IPV and HepB vaccines on 4/13/00. Five days later she died of SIDS. (Maine)
VAERS ID 151867 An infant received the DTaP, HBHepB and IPV vaccines on 5/10/00. The next day he was found lifeless, unresponsive and transported to the hospital. CPR was unsuccessful. Diagnosed SIDS. (Georgia)
The ones you've posted are from the 80's.
So why have SIDS rates gone down 50% in the 90s?
But the bigger question is why should we belive those studies say what you claim they do? You've proven yourself incapable of understanding this stuff, so why should we believe you now?
ahh! - a true example of cause and effect!
- A study utilizing the Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD) data, which included children who were under a health maintenance organization (HMO) health plan, found that there was no association between immunization and deaths in young children. The study investigated deaths in children one month to 7 years of age between 1991 and 1995. Data were analyzed by comparing vaccination histories for each vaccine during the week and month prior to the date of death for each child. Five hundred and seventeen deaths occurred between 1991-1995, most (59%) during the first year of life. Of these deaths, the results did not show an association between immunizations and childhood deaths4.
- The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), established by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), also monitors the safety of vaccines. VAERS provides a mechanism for the collection and analysis of adverse events associated with vaccines currently licensed in the United States. Adverse events are defined as health effects that occur after immunization that may or may not be related to the vaccine. VAERS data are continually monitored in order to detect previously unknown adverse events or increases in known adverse events.
- Studies that looked at the age distribution and seasonality of deaths reported to VAERS5, SIDS and VAERS reports following DTP vaccination6, and SIDS and VAERS reports following Hepatitis B vaccination7 found no association between SIDS and vaccination.
- The FDA carefully investigates all deaths following vaccination that are reported to VAERS. Between 1990 and 1992 the FDA and the Institute of Medicine (IOM) reviewed 208 deaths reported to VAERS. Only one death was believed to have resulted from a vaccine: a 28-year-old woman who died from Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS) after tetanus vaccination. The IOM concluded that the vast majority of deaths reported to VAERS are coincidental and not causally related to vaccination8.
I am sure you knew that...
MMR shouldn't be a debate even, it should be left up to the parents. If their child is sickly, they might want the vaccine but healthy children can tolerate measles, mumps, and rubella very well. I had all three when I was a child and I'm the healthiest person I know --besides my kids. Anyone who would refuse the polio vaccine would be an idiot I think ---when you see someone with post-polio syndrome and the life they endured after suffering through polio, you wouldn't want to risk that one.
Careful, you may be on thin ice with the medical thought police around here. :-)
But you're right of course. I had measles and mumps, but not rubella. Actually, I had measles and pneumonia at the same time. That put me in the hospital for a few days when I was seven.
In fact, I seem to have read somewhere that measles has never been particularly fatal to children in developed countries. Combined with poor nutrition in 3rd world countries, I'm sure it's quite dangerous, as would a lot of other things.
It also makes sense for parents to educate themselves as much as possible on medical matters. I've done a fair bit of poking around medical journals looking into psychiatric drug issues, and it's clear to me that medical science has become as politicized and outcome-based as so many other areas these days.
It's too bad that when a doc with an otherwise good record raises an issue that needs to be objectively refuted, as was the case with Dr. Wakefield and MMR, that instead he gets personally attacked and fired from his job by the vested interests. That should be a concern to anyone interested in getting good information on which to base personal medical decisions.
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