Pa. woman miscarries after judge granted permission for abortion

Knight Ridder Newspapers ^ | 8.7.02 | MARIE MCCULLOUGH

[Catspaw]

I hope this link comes up, but in Wisconsin, the relevant statute is 813.12.

http://folio.legis.state.wi.us/cgi-bin/om_isapi.dll?clientID=192789&infobase=stats.nfo&j1=ch.%20813&jump=ch.%20813&softpage=Browse_Frame_Pg

[marajade]

I didn't agree with her position to abort but she does have the legal right to make that decision whether I or anybody else likes it or not...

I can certainly understand with all the stress how the misscarriage occurred...

I'm sorry to hear about your misfortunes and want you to know that I feel they have brought relevant insights into the discussion.

[eaglebeak]

Propaganda can be found in the following.

"In one instance of particular callousness, when a teenager tried to kill herself after her request was turned down, the committee decided to hospitalize her for the rest of her pregnancy. (She eventually got her abortion, after her multiple suicide attempts proved too disruptive for the staff.)"

Trying to prevent her from killing herself was callous? What, they should have let her die, maybe? Hospitalizing her for treatment was callous? Why? She was not mentally stable and I truly doubt that the subsequent abortion helped matters any.

They were trying to force a mentally ill woman to bear a child. That's pretty callous, no matter where you stand in the moral arena.

'The Supreme Court has allowed states to erect barriers to abortion -- denial of public funds for poor women's abortions, parental consent and notification requirements, mandatory delays, "counseling sessions."'

Gasp! How dare the SC say that the "States" can decide for themselves that they don't want to use public money for abortions. Asking that the parents be notified before their minor child has a procedure done on them that could result in the death of their child and will result in the death of their grandchild is unbelievable. (Incidentally if anything did go wrong the parents would have to be notified by the emergency room and would be libel for the bill.) Or the waiting period? Barbaric to make someone think it over. And counseling? Why she may actually decide to have the baby! The nerve!

What is written is fact. I happen to agree with you that this matter (and many others) should be decided by the states, but the author pretty much tells you the facts as they stand.

"She closes on an ominous note, sketching the possibility of a United States in which not only is abortion once again a crime but anti-abortion fanaticism brings on a Romania-style fetal-police state, complete with government-monitored pregnancies and police investigations of miscarriages."

Why, sure, this is just fact. No speculation here.

Yes, but in this part she lets the reader know this is her own speculation. She is not here recounting the historical facts. There are other sources on the history of abortion in this country; my point is that it has always been around and it always will be, whether we like it or not. The most we can do is to educate people so they won't find themselves in such a horrible situation. But making it illegal will only worsen things.

Consider yourself enlightened. But I doubt that this will change your mind and you cannot change mine. So shall we agree to disagree?

If you like. At least we agreed on the importance of the states in all of this. And I genuinely thank you for having a look.

[eaglebeak]

See post #112.

[Catspaw]

It may not have been stress, but that may have been a contributing factor to the miscarriage. Lots of things can happen during a pregnancy (the stats I've seen range from 30% to 35% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage). My dearest friend lost a set of twins because the placenta kept implanting, then would detach. When she finally lost the babies at 5 months, they found out that they had significant genetic defects. Another good friend had a stillborn. My sister-in-law lost one baby from a set of twins in her 3rd month, but carried the other baby to term--she's now a fiesty four year old (no one told me or my hubby that his sister was still pregnant--when I found out she was shopping for baby furniture, I thought they were doing it to humor her). My aunt's last baby died interutero in her 7th month. Three of my sisters have miscarried. Mine? They just didn't know. Given that my only child is a grown-up, they just didn't have the technology to find out at the time. Now they do, or they can get a very good idea. But it does nothing to ease the pain of the loss of a baby.

[marajade]

I've never had a pregnancy myself so I would never ever presume to know what is right or wrong for someone else...

[RepubMommy]

this is going to sound mean, but I think both the idiot so-called sperm donor and the idiot so-called mom perhaps should never be able to produce childrn again...

The would be father was on OReilly tonight. He appeared to be a sincere and genuine man, who was truly heartbroken about the decision she had made and the fact that she miscarried.

[realwoman]

What I find funny is that they keep referring to the unborn child and the baby......uuummmmmm, I thought that was taboo for the pro-murder folks.

[Dr. Scarpetta]

She charged that Stachokus "threatened bodily harm if he ever sees me in public" and caused "verbal and emotional abuse for the past year toward both me and my son."

I would really like to know more about this guy. Isn't she a lot younger? Did he know about the pregnancy when they broke up? Did she dump him, or did he dump her? (just curious)

[Catspaw]

I had to do some digging, but he's 27. I don't know who broke up with whom, though--but my guess is she was the one who left. Had he left, he may not have been this litigious.

http://www.citizensvoice.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=4961936&BRD=2259&PAG=461&dept_id=455154&rfi=8

[realwoman]

ANY woman can get a restraining order just by saying she is AFRAID that the man MIGHT hurt her SOMETIME in the FUTURE. Restraining orders have become a legal "tool" to get a woman everything she wants. The woman herself said that he had NEVER been violent to her while they were together. This ALLEGED violence only "occured" after mommy dearest got involved.

ALL judges issue restraining orders ex-parte, with ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE whatsoever, and WITH NO HEARING to determine if the RO is even warranted. Most ROs are issued without the man even being SERVED with papers, and therefore unable to defend himself against the allegations.

NO argument using the fact that this woman had a restraining order is worth the paper that the order is written on!

[Catspaw]

Did he offer to help her pay her medical bills for the miscarriage? Even if he's not in a position to pay for the bills himself, there have been donations and some of that money could be used to pay off the bills from the miscarriage.

[marajade]

Um, sworn testimony, hers to the judge, is considered evidence in any court... Try again.

[katherineisgreat]

Look dude, while there's a possiblity that there was some "special sauce" used to bring about the miscarriage, it's not good form to say that that was the case. It sounds like the womans mother is a mess, the woman is an emotional bundle of nerves who hates the publicity. There is ambivalence in all women who have abortions, regards of their previous views about it. They tell themselves it's not a baby, it's small etc. They were never shown the sonogram. Then they try and forget about it and remember 20 years later when they have other kids they adore...

I AM SICK TO DEATH of the mean spirtedness of the threads on abortion. The whole "you killed your baby so burn in hell slutty bitch" mentality is very old, and not only reflects poorly on FR but on posters. Don't get me wrong, abortion is murder, but screaming it till you're hoarse helps nobody. Thats where the Leonard Neillsen photos come in. I've been to the salon threads where women talk about their abortions. These are pro-choice lib women, and they are screwed up about it! They theink people like you are self-righteous, male patricarchists, and fear the Republicans because of these views. And they say "They've never been there." And you haven't. Lots of them regret it. And I'm thinking how Christian is it to hate these people, slander their names, when only God judges them? If you want to win converts for the pro-life crowd, be a little kinder. To everyone. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

/rant.

[fatima]

I agree,easy way out.That way no one can blame her.

[realwoman]

They just don't grant protection orders based upon a whim...

Yes, they do, THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of them each and every day. I have worked in "family" law for 15 years, it is a common ploy to enable the woman to get exactly what she wants.

[marajade]

see my post 133

[realwoman]

Um, sworn testimony, hers to the judge, is considered evidence in any court... Try again.

ONLY IF the accused has a chance to cross-examine.....in the majority of RO cases, the man doesn't even know about the allegations until AFTER the woman gets an ex-parte order.

[TankerKC]

Look Chick, for the last time, I DID NOT say that she caused a miscarriage. I said that she may have gone ahead with the abortion and claimed to have had a miscarriage....read what I've written.

I hope the rest of your rant wasn't meant for me, because I have never participate in the type of crap you describe.

If you think that I am a "self-righteous, male patricarchists" then you can offer some example or apologize. You’ve got me all wrong, sister.

[marajade]

Orders of protection are signed off by judges under an oath of perjury...