Experts Find Glocks Prone To Accidents

Syracuse Post-Standard ^ | 8/7/02 | John O'Brien

[Travis McGee]

JAG files are full of cases of guards shooting one another during horseplay at changing of the guard. For real.

[Travis McGee]

Let's face it, most cops and ordinary folks would be better served with a hammerless revolver with a 15 pound DA trigger.

Not to mention their coworkers, neighbors and children.

[Travis McGee]

"Too intimidating"? I thought that was the entire point, to get the perp to surrender without a battle? How can you be "too intimidating" as long as you are polite when addressing the public?

[Travis McGee]

(From the Wash Post article:

The string of accidental shootings by D.C. officers came amid 10 years of warnings from firearms experts about the Glock's light trigger and propensity to fire an unintentional shot when handled incorrectly. Such a sensitive gun was designed for highly trained users.

Yet the [DCPD] department stinted on training for recruits and failed to keep veteran officers to a twice-yearly retraining schedule that experts consider the bare minimum for firearms competence. A Washington Post investigation found that 75 percent of all D.C. officers involved in shootings during 1996 failed to comply with the retraining regulation. One officer waited so long to come to the range that firearms instructors found a spider nest growing inside his Glock.

(The DCPD retained the factory 5.5 pound trigger pull.)

[Travis McGee]

Check out the linked WP article on the DCPD.

[Squantos]

http://www.glockmeister.com/triggers.html




Good points, the link above says a lot about glock triggers......


Stay Safe !

[jalisco555]

"Mark Doneburgh, Glock's district manager for the Syracuse area, was an Onondaga County sheriff's deputy 14 years ago when he first looked at Glocks. He questioned whether they could hold up because they're made of plastic, so he took the gun up in a helicopter and dropped it to the ground. It didn't break and didn't fire, he said. "

Now how far will a a 9 mm round go?

I wondered about that myself. Hope this expert dropped his Glock in an extremely secluded spot where he first insured that no one was nearby. Sounds like a pretty dumb way to test a weapon but what do I know. I'm no expert.

[Jonah Hex]

A spider nest? Oh man, that's bad. I don't feel confident unless I spend a few hours on the range at least once a month, and I try to practice at least once a week.

[archy]

"Mark Doneburgh, Glock's district manager for the Syracuse area, was an Onondaga County sheriff's deputy 14 years ago when he first looked at Glocks. He questioned whether they could hold up because they're made of plastic, so he took the gun up in a helicopter and dropped it to the ground. It didn't break and didn't fire, he said. "

Now how far will a a 9 mm round go?

Several years back, I was with an Israeli Chen troopie in the Negev Desert on a jeep trip, with my shoulder stocked 9mm Browning GP/Hi-power and her 9mm Uzi SMG for company. Her unit had considerable excess 9mmm pistol ammo available, as most of their Uzis had been exchanged for 5,56mm M16A1 rifles, which she didn't care for. Accordingly, we had along 3 cases of 2000 rounds apiece of 9mm ammo that didn't have to be returned, and wasn't.

Before that day was over, we literally ran out of rocks for targets, but among other amusements, we fired a few magazines with the weapons held at various extreme angles in the 45º-60º range trying to determine which would give the greatest effect. We were curious too as to whether there'd be a significant difference between the effect with the 5-inch barrel of my Browning's pistol barrel and her Uzi's 10-inch barrel.

Observing bullet strike with her binoculars and the 500mm telescopic lens [10x] of my Nikon camera, we found that when so fired, the round for either pistol or buzzgun was good for a maximum range a little better than 2000 meters- call it 2500 meters, which we found from the odometer on the jeep was a bit less than 3 miles.

By the time our amusement was done, she was quite skilled with both the Uzi and my GP, and the full-jacketed Israeli military ammunition remains quite lethal out to the ranges at which a target can be reasonably expected to be hit with such a weapon, a couple of hundred yards. But I would not care to have a 5-round burst rain down on me from the extreme distances we had been playing at, though serious injury rather than death is more probable.

As for my handgun, the effective range is pretty simple to determine: it's about as far as you can throw the gun at a person and hit them with it. Beyond that, use something more appropriate, like that Uzi or an M16.

I could do a little better with that particular pistol, with which I had already practiced quite about, and which the detatchable stock really helped. But it's still a good rule of thumb.

About 300 meters maximum,, as a practical matter. Something less than 3000, absolute maximum distance the bullet will actually fly, though hitting an individual target at such a range is more a matter of luck than skill.

-archy-/-

[RogueIsland]

As others have noted, the standard Glock does not have a 2-1/2 - 3-1/2 lb trigger pull. The standard is 5.5 lbs for typical duty weapons.

I was trying to illustrate a general point of theory. That should have been clear from a subesequent post where I mention specifically GLOCK trigger pulls.

[archy]

JAG files are full of cases of guards shooting one another during horseplay at changing of the guard. For real.

During Israel's wars prior to the intifada and operations in Lebanon, the military command noted that their forces had suffered more accidents involving injury and death to personnel with handguns than with all other weapons combined, excepting hand grenades. That is in part due to a wide variety of different types in Israeli service, with different safety arrangements and handling characteristics, and also in part from the ways in which bored or tired soldiers with a bit too much unsupervised time on their hands find to amuse or occupy themselves.

But the shorty M16 *car15* has accordingly replaced most of the handguns carried by Israeli soldiers, other than those in the elite and special raiding units, and even the once-ubiquitous and popular Uzi is rarely seen in the hands of uniformed Army personnel.

-archy-/-

[Wm Bach]

Ahhh, I see that the far, far left wing, commie pinko, islamo-terrorist, pedophile, black-labrador-puppy-kicking,
granola-eating, DU, homosexual, NTSB-defending, Backstreet Bosy-listening, Sarah brady-loving, Glock bashing continues unabated. :^)

[Jonah Hex]

(WARNING: Sea story about to be committed)

Back in my younger days on subs, we had an in-port topside watch complete with M1911A1 at all times including in dry dock. One night about 0-dark-30, the newbie top-side watch was playing Rance McGrew with his weapon (pulling fast draws, twirling it, and reholstering).

Anyway, the yutz fumbled the weapon, dropped it and watch it slide over the side and drop 30' to the concrete drydock bottom! The weapon discharged on impact, but luckliy no yardbirds were hurt.

After that, they took the pistols away from the topside watches and issued batons instead. Just as well, because somebody would still lose one over the side once in a while.

No kidding..... (smile)

[Cap'n Crunch]

Yes, I'm afraid that leather jackets apparently scare the general public. We also cannot wear some types of black leather gloves, and they at one time were considering changing the colors of our cruisers from black to white.

Not to mention that we cannot choke anybody (well, not supposed to anyway) and vehicle chases are almost a thing of the past.

Speaking of spiders in weapons, heres a story. One of our old timers, who retired a few years ago, went out to the range with his issue revolver. It was rusted shut. Had he needed it he would have been out of luck, the cylinder would not turn.

Our dept. schedules our training, usually once or twice a year. One time we went about 2 years without qualifying.

Personally I wouldn't mind carrying a revolver. I always liked them.

[FormerLurker]

"If you have a brain fade and pull the trigger, it won't go bang," Cominolli said.

You never allow yourself to have a "brain fade" while handling a weapon. Ever.

One rule of firearm safety is "allows treat a gun as if it's loaded".

Another rule with automatics is to always inspect the chamber before assuming a gun is unloaded. Obviously, you have to ensure a firearm is unloaded before stripping it down to clean it.

A Glock WILL NOT FIRE UNLESS THE TRIGGER IS PULLED. Unless you desire to fire the weapon, you NEVER put your finger into the trigger guard, except AFTER you've cleared the chamber AND inspected it prior to stripping the weapon down in order to clean it.

A Glock isn't much different than a revolver in the respect that it won't fire unless you pull the trigger. Obviously, there are many who have somehow or another had "brain fades"...

[Wm Bach]

Personally I wouldn't mind carrying a revolver. I always liked them.

Bump for neverfail wheelguns. (unless of course, the cylinder is rusted fast)

[School of Rational Thought]

"I think the problem with all of these semi-autos is that there is a round left in the chamber after the magazine is removed, unless all of the rounds are used up"

Don't these people know to always treat a gun as if it is loaded?

[FormerLurker]

Do you have a source for this? I thought I recalled reading, re some previous case of a LEO's accidental discharge, that the NYPD Glocks were customized to have a LIGHT trigger pull -- which would go a long way toward explaining the high rate of ADs.

The New York trigger isn't called the New York trigger for nothing...

Glock Triggers

The NYPD modified Glock triggers to require a more forceful finger tug to fire them in 1990.

[glock rocks]

Let's face it, most cops and ordinary folks would be better served with a hammerless revolver with a 15 pound DA trigger.

that's true. since i've owned my Vette, i've seen many of them wrapped around poles or upside down...

just because you can afford something doesn't mean you'll have the brains to us it safely.

at the range, i can put twenty holes in a six inch circle at twenty feet from concealed with my Glocks
in less than ten seconds. consistently. i don't carry a revolver. i carry a Glock for backup.

i usually carry a Sig and drive an SUV... not quite as fast as the Vette and Glock, but comfy and thoroughly sufficient.

the creed of the C programmer is "you know what you're doing."

i think it fits many of the parallel discussions going on here.

[Squantos]

Hey !!

I "never" wrecked my Vette !.........:o)

Stay Safe !