BG Paul W Tibbets, USAF, Ret: "That's their tough luck for being there."

The UK Guardian ^ | Tuesday August 6, 2002 | Studs Terkel

[SlickWillard]

Tibbets has his own web site, http://www.theenolagay.com.

Just think, when he was a boy, in the early years of the twentieth century, automobiles were not entirely common devices. He grew up to fly propeller-driven aircraft, then jet aircraft, and somewhere along the way, he found time to drop the nuclear bomb that ended the greatest war in the history of mankind. Now, in his twilight years, he has one of the spiffier web sites on the internet.

I wonder if we will live to see the sorts of breathtaking changes in human history that were witnessed by General Tibbets and his contemporaries. So far, the little changes have been more remarkable, such the appearance of language nazis, who expropriate words like "Gay," and render them unfit for civil conversation.

Oh well, things could be worse.

[SlickWillard]

WWII history bump.

[Coop]

Because they're gonna strike again, I'll put money on it. And it's going to be damned dramatic. But they're gonna do it in their own sweet time. We've got to get into a position where we can kill the bastards. None of this business of taking them to court, the hell with that. I wouldn't waste five seconds on them.

Wise words from a wise man.

[ArcLight]

Sensational stuff. Thanks for posting!

[Bigg Red]

bump

[Bigg Red]

bump

[fourdeuce82d]

"Tibbets has his own web site"

yup- just sent him an email thanking him for his service.

[tom paine 2]

I lived in Hawaii from 1952 to 1960. As a young man I got to see one of the H-bomb explosions at Einewetok Island one evening. The island was about 1000 miles away from Oahu to the south. When it went off it made the night sky light up with this weird unearthly glow that lasted for several minutes. I will never forget that.

[EternalVigilance]

A very interesting read...thanks.

[rightwing2]

General Tibbets doesn't demonstrate much regard for the lives of the 140,000 innocent men, women, and children who lost their lives as the result of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Need I remind everyone that several hundred US POWs were knowingly atomized by their fellow countryman in Hiroshima and Nagasaki or that Hiroshima was the center of Christianity in Japan? The bottom line is that the dropping of the atomic bombs were both immoral and unnecessary to produce her surrender and end the war. Here are some relevant excerpts to add to the debate from my senior paper from over a decade ago. Oh, how I wish that we had a God-fearing, principled Joint Chiefs Chairman today like Admiral Leahy.

In the words of Admiral King, “Japan was finished long before either one of the two atomic bombs were dropped.” King believed that the defeat of Japan could be accomplished by sea and airpower alone without the necessity of invading the Japanese home islands. (The Decision to Drop the Atomic Bomb, p. 65) General Eisenhower, and USAAF Generals Arnold and Spaatz agreed with this assessment.

Admiral William D. Leahy, Chief of the Chiefs of Staff stated that he believed the use of the atomic bombs against Japan was of “no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons.” Leahy also stated that in his opinion, “War is not to be waged on women and children” and added that the deliberate use of the atomic bomb against Japanese civilians was “barbarous.” (The Decision to Drop the Atomic Bomb, p. 65)

This was the judgment of Admiral Leahy, the Chairman of the Chiefs of Staff of the U.S. armed services, on the use of the atomic bombs on Japan. Leahy also believed that certain other proposals for defeating Japan with chemicals and bacteria disseminated from the air were also morally repugnant. These proposals included using anthrax to kill the people or defoliants to kill the Japanese rice crops to starve the people into submission.

However, the Allied demand to the Japanese for 'unconditional surrender' was the biggest obstacle to securing the peace and served only to prolong the war and the great destruction, devastation, and loss of life, which accompanied it. This demand served to harden the Japanese will to resist until the bitter end and severely weakened the power of those who advocated peace in Japan just as it had done in Germany. The War Department under Secretary Henry Stimson believed that there would have been much to gain by renouncing this policy of accepting nothing less than the 'unconditional surrender' of Japan. Intelligence experts believed that Japan might surrender at anytime "depending upon the conditions of surrender" the allies might offer (Morton 1990, 505).

It was clear to intelligence experts that to have any chance at all for acceptance, these conditions would have to include retention of the Emperor. Joseph C. Grew, Acting Secretary of State, proposed to the President late in May 1945 that he issue a proclamation to the Japanese urging them to surrender and assuring them that they could keep their emperor (Morton 1990, 507). Truman, while not opposing the idea, did not act on it either. (Hiroshima, p. 36) Even after the dropping of the two atomic bombs, the Japanese Cabinet agreed to surrender with the condition that the position of the Emperor not be prejudiced, a condition that was subsequently accepted by the US so upon historical reflection it seems clear that the dropping of the atomic bombs accomplished absolutely nothing.

Beginning in September 1944, the Japanese government began quietly searching for a way to peace beginning with an approach to the Swedish Minister in Tokyo to sound out the Allies on terms of peace. Both this and another overture in March 1945 came to nought. The Swedish Minister did learn that those who advocated peace in Japan regarded the Allied demand for unconditional surrender as their greatest obstacle. The new government led by Admiral Suzuki that came to power in April 1945 had an unspoken mandate from the Emperor to end the war as quickly as possible.

The German surrender in May 1945 produced a crisis in the Japanese government and led to a decision to seek Soviet mediation. The first such approach on June 3 to Jacob Malik, the Soviet Ambassador, produced no results. At the end of June, the Japanese approached the Soviet government directly through Ambassador Sato in Moscow, asking that it mediate with the allies to bring about an end to the Far Eastern war. However, the Russians, already intent on war with Japan to increase their power in the region, delayed their answer until mid-July when Stalin and Molotov left for Potsdam. The Japanese government had accepted defeat and was desperately searching for a way out.

Following the war, the United States Strategic Bombing Survey was commissioned to assess the effectiveness of the strategic bombing campaign on the outcome of the war. They concluded that Japan would have surrendered by the end of the year, and in all probability by November 1, 1945, "even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated.” (Takaki, Ronald, Hiroshima—Why America Dropped the Bomb, (Little Brown and Company, Limited: New York, 1995), 32)

[doglot]

History from one who made it.

[Ace's Dad]

Just want to add a small story: When the Enola Gay was being restored at Garber, the Smithsonion facility, my son, the future commercial pilot (Ace) reached in and touched the aircraft, much to the dismay of a couple of old ladies. He touched history, and believe me the B-29 could withstand the soft touch of kid in awe of what he saw! Regards, Avery

DTOM!

[Constitution Day]

Thanks for the ping... interesting read.

BTW, I believe today is also the anniv. of the landing at Guadalcanal.

[SkyPilot]

JAPANESE MEDICAL EXPERIMENTS REVEALED

Tokyo, 31 August 1945 ...Stars and Stripes

Horrific details of atrocities carried out by Japanese doctors are emerging as Allied PoWs are released. Prisoners have been subjected to vivisection. Others have been used as human guinea-pigs and injected with acid, inoculated with fatal diseases, or frozen at minus six degrees Fahrenheit (-20 C).

Eight U.S. airman shot down after B-29 raids in May died in vivisection experiments carried out by Professor Fukujior at Kyushu University. One PoWs stomach was removed, and an artery cut to see how long it was before he died.

Many of the atrocities have been at Japan's top-secret bacteriological warfare unit 731 at Harblin, in Manchuria. Prisoners were inoculated with anthrax, typhoid and cholera to test germ potency. Others have been boiled or dehydrated to death. Experiments included prolonged exposure to X-rays and prisoners subjected to a pressure chamber where the blood was forced out of their skin as they died in agony.

PoWs fear that 731's commander, Shiro Ishii, will escape prosecution in return for turning over germ warfare data to the U.S. Two released U.S. doctors also revealed today how they were made to prepare lethal acid-based solutions for Japanese doctors to inject into U.S. PoWs at a Tokyo hospital.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

Thanks for posting this.

[RoughDobermann]

Need I remind everyone that several hundred US POWs were knowingly atomized by their fellow countryman in Hiroshima and Nagasaki or that Hiroshima was the center of Christianity in Japan?

No need to remind me, because you are wrong. Fewer than two dozen American POWs were killed at Hiroshima, not hundreds. Horrific indeed, but such is warfare.

[Gumlegs]

Remember Pearl Harbor!

[gcruse]

Bockscar?

[ohioman]

Who the hells side are you on? You come off as nothing but a liberal Blame-AMERICA first panty waste.

[EternalVigilance]

Your assessment runs counter to that of every veteran of the war that I have ever met...to a man, they believe that the dropping of the bombs saved their lives, and the lives of hundreds of thousands of their fellow countrymen.

They had seen firsthand the cultural mindset of the Japenese soldier throughout the war in the Pacific...their refusal to surrender under the most horrific of circumstances.

Besides, was death by atomic bomb any more horrible than death by other means?

Do you also comdemn the bombing of Japenese and German cities with conventional bombs?

Should we have foresworn any military action which might have endangered civilians?

Silly questions, I know...but ones that need to be asked of those who would second-guess life and death decisions made nearly sixty years ago.

But the questions raised are as current as today's news headlines. Should the Israelis restrain themselves from bombing the terrorist masterminds in such a way that innocent civilians can't possibly be killed? Wouldn't such a policy simply give an insurmountable edge to the Islamo-fascists?

Smart bombs are good...I think America should always work to minimize civilian casualties whenever and wherever possible...but to restrain ourselves from going after our mortal enemies because the cowards hide themselves amongst the innocent would assure our defeat.

EV