BG Paul W Tibbets, USAF, Ret: "That's their tough luck for being there."

The UK Guardian ^ | Tuesday August 6, 2002 | Studs Terkel

[Gumlegs]

The name of the plane that dropped the bomb on Nagasaki.

[Tickle Me Pank]

Who gives a shiite if the Japanese "would have surrendered by Nov 1"?

The bombs ended the war - that in itself is adequate justification.

[Dog Gone]

Is it too late to send Tibbets on another mission?

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Hiroshima Mayor Criticizes U.S.

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Story Filed: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 12:51 PM EDT

HIROSHIMA, Japan (AP) -- The mayor of Hiroshima criticized the United States for unilaterally pursuing its own interests and urged a worldwide ban on weapons of mass destruction, as thousands gathered Tuesday to mark the 57th anniversary of the world's first atomic bomb attack.

In the annual ceremony at Peace Memorial Park, Tadatoshi Akiba suggested that Washington's policies in the post-Sept. 11 world were misguided.

``The United States government has no right to force Pax Americana on the rest of us, or to unilaterally determine the fate of the world,'' Akiba said. He also urged President Bush to visit Hiroshima to see ``with his own eyes what nuclear weapons hold in store.''

At 8:15 a.m. -- the minute on Aug. 6, 1945, when the bomb exploded after being dropped from a U.S. B-29 warplane -- a bell tolled and more than 45,000 survivors, residents and dignitaries from around the world bowed their heads for 60 seconds of silence to remember the victims.

The bomb killed about 140,000 people and sickened hundreds of thousands more in Hiroshima, 430 miles southwest of Tokyo. Three days later, a U.S. bomber dropped a second atomic bomb on Nagasaki, killing 70,000 people. Japan surrendered Aug. 15, 1945, ending World War II.

In his remarks, Akiba criticized what he called the prevailing international philosophy of '``I'll show you' and 'I'm stronger than you are,''' particularly in Afghanistan and the Middle East.

Akiba called on countries to scrap weapons of mass destruction, even as nuclear-armed India and Pakistan remained on war footing in the hotly contested region of Kashmir.

``The probability that nuclear weapons will be used again and the danger of nuclear war are increasing,'' Akiba said. ``Since the terrorist attack against the American people on Sept. 11 last year, the danger has become more striking.''

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By the way, I have a photo of the Enola Gay autographed by Tibbets. I display it proudly.

[swarthyguy]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/728194/posts

[LisaFab]

In his remarks, Akiba criticized what he called the prevailing international philosophy of '``I'll show you' and 'I'm stronger than you are,''' particularly in Afghanistan and the Middle East.

Been there, done that Mr. Akiba.

[Gunrunner2]

Loss of lives in a military operation are acceptable under certain circumstances and completely in line with Just War theory.

It all hinges on "proportionality" (the military gain in proportion to the cost).

The bombing was not "strategic devestation," it was "double effect."

The military gain was proportional to the civlian loss as the war was over almost immediately because of the bombing and thus saved hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives that would otherwise have been lost.

[Dog Gone]

Great link!

[Campion]

IMO, the Japanese must never be permitted to re-arm. Unlike the Germans, they have learned nothing from World War II, and their culture makes it almost impossible for them to have an honest examination of the evil that Japan did.

[wbill]

Thank you for your well-thought out response. Mine was going to be far more vituperative.

I know my grandfather was glad that he didn't need participate in the Japanese invasion.

I was also reading "Semper Fi, Mac" recently....(an oral history of the Marines in WWII, and an excellent read). If I remember correctly, the book mentioned that the 1st and 6th Marine divisions were going to spearhead Operation Olympic (the invasion of Japan). Both divisions were written out of the plan by H+36. In other words, the casualties would have been so high that the divisions would have ceased to exist 36 hours after they hit the beach. And that's only one branch of the service.....

Maybe there's a military historian out there that confirm or comment.

[hattend]

bttt

[bruoz]

"BOCKS CAR"

[rond]

That's their tough luck for being there.

Oh, I get it. Civilians at Hiroshima are to blame because they were dumb enough to live there. Too bad, so sad. People consider this acceptable?

Is it acceptable when enemies of the United States kill civilians and dismiss those casualties as "besides the point"?

I think Rightwing2 is spot-on with this elegant, succinct belief: the killing of innocents is always morally wrong. Doesn't matter the place, the time, the circumstances. It's wrong and we should not be a party to such barbarism. When we embrace the madness, we become mad ourselves.

[Question_Assumptions]

First, the Russians and Japanese still do not have a formal peace agreement because the Russians occupied 4 small islands north Japan that were historically Japanese. Second, the Americans had troops on the border between China and Russia to prevent the Russians from sending troops into China against Japan. Now the question. If the war had lasted to November 1st, how much of Japan do you think Russia could have controlled? How much of China? And would Japan have benefitted from being split between the Allies and Russia like Germany?

[EternalVigilance]

"...the killing of innocents is always morally wrong."

I'm glad you guys weren't in charge of WWII...we would have lost.

Zieg heil!

[bruoz]

"Is it acceptable when enemies of the United States kill civilians and dismiss those casualties as "besides the point"?

No. We have been known to drop a-bombs on them.

[billbears]

WWII bump. Good read

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

Maybe if you'd read about Japanese soldiers inserting firecrackers into the bodily cavities of Filipino women - blowing them up in front of their children - or the brutal killing of Marines and corpsmen on Iwo Jima, inserting the genitalia of the dead into places you really don't want to hear about (yes, this is meant to shock some sense into you) - instead of limiting yourself to material like this, you wouldn't feel quite so bad.

The WWII-era Japanese could have taught the Nazis a couple of things. And the Japanese of that era had the suicidal, fanatical mindset we see in Al Qaeda to go with it. That's not a combination to fool around with.

As ripe for surrender as you suggest they were, it took two bombs to get the message delivered - what's wrong with this picture?

No one will ever convince me it wasn't the right thing to do.

[Fred Mertz]

Fascinating interview. Thanks for posting it.

[SlickWillard]

That's their tough luck for being there.

Oh, I get it. Civilians at Hiroshima are to blame because they were dumb enough to live there. Too bad, so sad. People consider this acceptable?

Read his comment in its context. Tibbets was addressing the recent spate of news stories concerning possible civilian deaths in Afghanistan [such as the "Wedding Party/Anti-Aircraft Battery" fraud].

There is a very old, very moral approach to this question: If men commit acts of barbarism, then run and hide behind the skirts of women and children, they should not be surprised to see similar acts of barbarism visited upon same.