Sheriff: Rescued girls were minutes from death

CNN ^ | August 2, 2002

[TopQuark]

'He was hunting for a place to kill them and bury them'

Authorities remove the body of Roy Ratliff near Lake Isabella, California, on Thursday.

LANCASTER, California (CNN) -- The man who abducted two teenage girls at gunpoint early Thursday was "hunting for a place to kill them" in a remote desert spot about 100 miles away when two deputies located him and fatally shot him, authorities said.

[Joe Brower]

and [the deputy] shot him twice in the head. And shot him until he stopped

Well done.

[Under the Radar]

Aw, come on, weren't you ever a teen? Teens date are known to break curfews (especially in the summer when school is out) and there is very little parents can do!

Forget to leave off a "sarcasm" tag?

I don't think that the parents should be prosecuted. Let Mother Nature take care of her own, meaning fewer homo sapien for my children to compete with.

I always laugh when I read posts by libertarians who make noises to the effect that, "Why bother to stop carnal behavior in children-- its irrepressible!" You can always tell those who were raised by people who didn't love them.

A dog will eat cat feces from the litterbox. Its purely natural behavior, but most people don't care enough about their dog to train him to stop.

[Under the Radar]

Yeah- let's blame the parents for this.... are you saying they are partially responsible for the dead SOB doing what he did to their daughters?

Yes.

I also blame parents who let their children play in freeway traffic. But I am a nasty person.

[3catsanadog]

But if the ACLU sues on behalf of Native Americans for the sheriff's remarks, I won't be surprised.

Somewhere in this country, a cry of outrage will be heard from the tolerance, acceptance and diversity ones.

[Amore]

"I've heard a claim that when it was announced Ratliff was dead, there was applause. When the announcement was subsequently replayed, the applause was edited out."

I had the exact same reaction. Saw the replay, and when he made the announcement, there was dead silence. I was flipping all over the dial, so it could have been CNN, MSNBC, or FOX. I would hope FOX wouldn't engage in such PC-censorship.

[stop_fascism]

Of course, he is a media hog. Beside that, he seems to have a pathological facination with rape.

Our state government is a real embarassment. It would be nice if we could divide California into 3 states, but that will never happen.

[Miss Marple]

Once again, I see that people are using a story that nearly was a tragedy to blame parents for poor parenting skills without actually knowing under what circumstances these young women were out at 1:30 in the morning.

For all any of you critics know, this could have been the first time they broke curfew. Perhaps they weakly acquiesced to parking with a boyfriend.

Having raised two teenagers myself, and done everything known to humankind to keep them on the straight and narrow, they STILL made boneheaded choices occasionally. Adolescents are emotional, impulsive, and hormone-driven. They make stupid mistakes in every type of behavior, from driving, drinking, dodging homework, etc.

This does not mean parents are not doing their job, nor does it mean that the children don't respect their parents, nor does it mean anything except that teenagers MAKE MISTAKES.

It is very sad that these girls will pay for years and years for their poor judgement. Anyone using this thread for comments about child-rearing should walk a mile in the shoes of a teen parent, and then apologize profusely.

[nfldgirl]

I'm glad to hear you are perfect.

Perfect? Absolutely not! I didn't say anything about me being perfect...I just simply said that I respected my parents enough to not disobey their rules. I had a...let's say..."healthy fear" of the consequences if I didn't.

[E Rocc]

Yeah- let's blame the parents for this.... are you saying they are partially responsible for the dead SOB doing what he did to their daughters?

Hell, I'm suprised none of the holier-than-thous have tried to blame the girls yet.

-Eric

[meandog]

When you have a couple of teens come back and talk to me...

[Amore]

I think some people here misinterpret comments about kids being out so late as "blaming the victim." I don't see that that is what is going on. Of course that vile animal is to blame! But I thought one of the few things most of here on FR could agree about is that there are an awful lot of people who are not properly parenting their children.

I think some people here take things too personally, as a reflection on themselves as parents. For instance, someone else here said their daughters broke curfew lots of times, but -- significantly -- she went on to say that they got punished! That parent is working to teach her daughters right from wrong.

In this case, it seems to me that they shouldn't have been out there at that isolated lovers-lane spot so late at night, summer or not. That's JMHO. Now, whether they were there because they snuck out or whether they were there because they had lax parents, we don't yet know. But in today's world, it's quite possible it is the latter. Being a parent is an awesome responsibility and duty, and many parents are in fact awful parents.

One commentator last night said (before news that they were raped came out), "If they were my daughters, I would hug them, tell them how much I love them, and then tell them they were grounded for the rest of the summer!"

I think he had the right attitude.

[Psycho_Bunny]

I think I like this Sparks fellow.

[RightWhale]

The girls had been in separate vehicles with male friends at a popular "lovers' lane" in Los Angeles County when they were kidnapped at gunpoint shortly before 2 a.m

Their partners in playing "we are grown-ups", were not grown up either and could do nothing. They themselves could be liable for charges of statutory rape.

[meandog]

You are not a meandog at all :) Parenting requires leadership, and you seem to have abandoned yours. And, yes, I was a teenager and did some crazy things. But my parents --- who never raised their hand on me --- would probably take my head off if I were to sneak out until morning. It is the resignation to the status quo that causes our culture to deteriorate further. Kids always push the envelope, so when you don't correct them on using the word d-man (as was done until a couple of decades ago), they proceed to stronger expressions. When you do not insist on them being polite with elders, they end up not having any respect for them at all. The "greatest generation" still remembered how it was otherwise: they were raised properly but failed to pass on the traditions, giving rise to the most uncivil society we have ever had in our history. By now, that those doing parenting do not even have references: their own parents were doing serious drugs in the 60s.

Listen, goody two shoes, only when you have sit up until 3 a.m. on prom night worried sick about your teen will you know what a parent has to go through. It is a rite of passage. Mark Twain was right in his quote: ...God makes teenagers so despisable so their parents won't miss them when they finally leave home!"

[TopQuark]

Listen, goody two shoes, only when you have sit up until 3 a.m. Assumptions, assumptions...

How do you know, baddy two shoes, that I haven't? You only confirm what I said. And, you are not the first one who justifies his own failures by explaining them away.

[TopQuark]

It's too late, Bunny: he's married. :)

Just kidding of course: he's great, and we need more sheriffs like that. Makes me want to move to his county.

[meandog]

How do you know, baddy two shoes, that I haven't? You only confirm what I said. And, you are not the first one who justifies his own failures by explaining them away.

Failures? I haven't failed at parenting. No. 1 daughter is a MSRN nurse anesistest; No. 2 daughter is in real estate. Both are now married and I've just learned I'm going to be a 1st time grandfather this October...I didn't fail at anything but I did have to endure the 15, 16, 17 and 18-year-old rites of passage (and here's hoping when your turn comes it will be doubly hard).

[freesia2]

Most of the time, so did I, and with good reason -- same "healthy fear" to which you refer. :) And that's the way it should be. Nevertheless, I did sneak out two times in the middle of summer nights when my friends were having campouts, did nothing dreadful while I was gone, and got away with it because no one woke up. That being said, I wouldn't be remotely surprised if these girls DIDN'T have parents who cared enough to impose some rules. It just can't always be assumed that when a kid does something wrong that the parents are to blame, that's all.

[Exit148]

The girls are alive. They are lucky.

We've gone on to "why were they out so late at that age, to parenting, to what we did as teens, to whatever".

I've read nothing about those two boys. Did they have a responsibility?