Is doin' the 4473 really a bad thing?

my brain | 7/31/2002 | Jason

[Jason, from Columbus Ohio]

Although private sales have their place, I have questioned the whole deal of the 4473. Some say it puts you on "the list", others say it's not a big deal and it would be near impossible to organize and digitize millions of these little forms into a national database; and there are those who just say 'molone labe' and who cares. So the big question I have for you is: Is doing the 4473 thing once in a while really a bad thing for you?

[hole_n_one]

This is going to be a fun thread. Watch for all of the people posting without reading first.

If the reader relies on simply the text of the original post to determine the subject matter and contex.........

yeah......it'll be a hoot!

[Squantos]

Used to be an 4473 was just maintained by the FFL dealer. The Forms were inspected as a form of traceing a weapon used in a crime.......ie; cops call in the serial number to manufacturer, they then direct to jobber, distrubtor, dealer and then the individual who purchased said firearm....

Nice effective system IMHO for FLEAS & LEO's to solve a crime.

IMHO they are no longer just used for solving a crime they are used to collect data. With scanners , a few lap tops with el grande hard disc's ect ect the local BATFags can scoop and snoop all they need in an hours worth of routine inspection of a dealer to see who , what , when and where is doing.

Send all the digital doo do off to some goobermint bean counting poges to amass the demographics and individual files ..........to do what with involves tinfoil and a lawyer on retainer.

Stay Safe.......

[Travis McGee]

I agree. The BATFags have always been allowed to "look over" an FFLs 4473s as long as he didn't take them away.

Today, that "look" goes right onto the hard drive.

Virtual registration. Most of the 100s of new BATF hires have gone to programs where they "assist" local PDs in their "record keeping". What a joke.

[coloradan]

There is nothing virtual about this registration. The form 4473 has your name, address, and prisoner number, oops, sorry, SSN, and also it has the make, model, and serial number of what you are buying. That's not virtual registration, that's full-blown, real registration. The list isn't centralized, but one stroke of the pen can make it so.

[zx2dragon]

Do a search. I believe it was last year that the ATF had to be taken to court in order to stop them from going into gun shops and scanning the forms into their laptops. A direct violation of the law.

[556x45]

I know (as in fact) that the BATF routinely visits the large FFLs in my area and scans all 4473s since the last visit. The object is quite focused: nonPC weapons aka assault rifles, and some types of handguns. Its primarily the assualt rifles they're most interested in though. The integrity of this 'database' is debatable (its legality isnt). I also know that their class III database is lacking. In fact at times they rely on the class III dealer's records to update theirs. You read that correctly: their database is missing well documented transactions of DDs (their term not mine)....the datum for those transactions are collected and provided by the buyer and seller and subject to review by the BATF! So, its clear that this 4473 database is likely suffering from the same sorts of 'out of dateness'. This can be good or bad depending: good if they miss the transaction and you're the current owner. Its bad if they decide to 'visit' and youre not the current owner but your's is the last address they have. I'm thinking they've only fooled themselves. Most gunowners know the score and have an 'emergency' weapon with no paper trail. The bottom line is eventually they'll ask everyone to pony up their guns voluntarily or else. Its the else part where things start to go bad.

That said, I wouldn't hesitate buying a weapon from an FFL b/c I had to fill out a 4473 or b/c I was subject to a NICS check. Like a previous post said its like sticking a finger in their eye. They're not going to intimidate me into not owning guns. Let them record all they want but in the end they best not touch.

[556x45]

This is rich! Its immaterial whether they lost or won or even whether there was a court case: they're still scanning 4473s today. Hey, get with the program. They're the govt and will do as they please. Understand that, in their view, they're above law...they ARE the law. Logic and whats right isn't part of the discussion. :^)

[apillar]

I've bought, sold, and traded more guns with individuals than I can count. In fact out of all the guns I've ever owned only 2 were purchased from licensed dealers. I've never asked anyone to fill out this form and have never been asked to myself. I live in a rural area and most trades take place over CB or the local traders guides. A lot of times I don't even know the name of the person I sell or buy from. Most of the time I will agree on a price and meet the seller or buyer and an arraigned location. Nothing shady just the way business is done in the country.

[Travis McGee]

I agree, the difference is mainly semantics. Even without the law, BATFags are going into FFLs and scanning them into their laptops today.

[TankerKC]

I'd have to say 508,307-A Hope this helps.

Helps? Helps! This kind of attitude will bring this country down. Dang, don't you care at all about the children?

[Travis McGee]

The BATFags don't care about the law, they just proceed along with de facto "scan registration".

[Shooter 2.5]

I sold only three guns that I can remember. One was a simple .22 rifle and before the dealer would make the transaction, he wanted my driver's license so he could write everything down.
I really wanted to sell the rifle so I went along with it but that's the type of thing that makes a person wonder how bad things have gotten.

[Shooter 2.5]

Bang!

[wardaddy]

What's gun registration? :>)

[Tijeras_Slim]

Is doin' the 4473 really a bad thing?

If you don't mind the traffic. I usually do 337 to 40 and get off at exit 174.

[jumpstartme]

867 5309

[jumpstartme]

Is doing the 4473 thing once in a while really a bad thing for you?

I suggest partying like its 1999.

[Billthedrill]

23 skidoo.

For those who suspect that scanning millions of such forms presents a technical challenge to the federal government, I have some bad news. It is neither difficult nor, I would be willing to bet, untried. What they do with this information is problematic, but the chances are high that it's out there. Data aren't always immortal, but it's the way to bet.

[harpseal]

I never really cared about the 4473. I just sort of figure they will presume I have firearms even if I did not have any and they will presume I am dangerous enough to raid early. If my presumptions are wrong so much the better.

Stay well - Stay safe - stay armed - yorktown