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Ivan The Terrible (Sunday History Read)
BBC Education - History 2000 ^ | undated | BBC

Posted on 07/28/2002 11:37:32 AM PDT by Hacksaw

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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: Virginia-American
That's what I've heard.
42 posted on 07/28/2002 4:14:31 PM PDT by dr_who
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To: aculeus; Orual; general_re
Ilya Repin: Ivan the Terrible and his son Ivan, and detail.
43 posted on 07/28/2002 4:16:37 PM PDT by dighton
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To: dighton
I remember during Gorby's reign there was a summit or something, and the press/diplomats were to be given a tour of the museum where that painting was, but they closed off that wing, apparently because of the artwork wasn't what you would call "patriotic".
44 posted on 07/28/2002 4:23:00 PM PDT by dr_who
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To: IronJack; Savage Beast
However, I refuse to call Julius Seezer Julius Kaiser.

Wrong, wrong, wrong - there is no "J" sound in Latin. Say it with me - "ee-yoo-lee-oos Kaiser"

- general_re, who had his own version of Mrs. McAlpin to deal with ;)

45 posted on 07/28/2002 4:40:29 PM PDT by general_re
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To: IronJack; one_particular_harbour
The wife of a Russian Tsar (or Czar, if you will) is Tsaritsa. In Russian language and pronunciation it's spelled and pronounced "Tsaritsa" (Öàðèöà), in Enlish for some reason unknown to me it's pronounced "Tsarina". But both words mean the same thing.

The son of a tsar is a "tsarevich" (öàðåâè÷)...

The daughter of a tsar is "tsarevna" (öàðåâíà).

A prince in Russian is a "Knyaz'" (êíÿçü)...

A princess is a "knyaginya" (êíÿãèíèÿ).

(You'll have to set your encoding in your browser's 'View' pulldown to "Cyrillic-Windows" to be able to view the Russian in Cyrillic Russian text).

46 posted on 07/28/2002 4:55:59 PM PDT by Washington-Husky
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I rarely read each and every post about an article. This one is the exception. Thanks for the interesting read gang.
47 posted on 07/28/2002 4:57:24 PM PDT by LowOiL
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To: IronJack
I'll get it straight one of these days.

I can't recall the source, but it's my understanding that 'Czarina' is the wife of the Czar; and 'Czaritza' is her title as Queen and Empress.

48 posted on 07/28/2002 5:02:00 PM PDT by dread78645
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To: general_re
You can be sure you wouldn't have pronounced a "j" sound in her class!

I still know my declentions and conjugations.

She's one of the best teachers I ever had (and I've had well over 27 years of education--lots of teachers)--strictly no nonsense. You did not come to her class unprepared. No chewing gum. Girls could not have their hair in curlers. (I went to a very tacky high school.) Everyone was afraid to peep. And she didn't make friends with the students. I loved Latin, was always prepared, made straight A's, was fascinated every day in class.

The next year I had one of the worst teachers I'ver ever had. She had pets. (I wasn't one. I always had an unfortunate talent for letting teachers know what I thought of them.) There was no discipline. Cheating on tests was the general custom. She was particularly interested in who was "popular" and befriended those who were. I didn't learn anything. I was disappointed. (My sister, who was very "popular" was crazy about her, and vice versa.) The final semester, she gave me "50" in Latin, which wrecked my average, and promptly left town for the summer so that my parents and I could not protest. Even today, I think of her with no respect.

The first year teacher though I always think of with respect and gratitude. She taught me a lot more than Latin.

So did the second year teacher.

49 posted on 07/28/2002 5:07:27 PM PDT by Savage Beast
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To: aculeus
There are people living today who would love to surpass Ivan in every depraved act and in depravity itself. Some are intelligent enough to reach positions of great power.

For this reason alone, the character of those in public office is very important.

It is true that checks on public officials today, not present in Ivan's time, prevent most overt acts of depravity, but they do not prevent mischief, depravity, and evil, destructive acts.

This is why it is very significant when someone with a psychopathic personality is elected to a powerful public office. Those who are not alarmed either do not understand the significance; choose not to, possibly because they find it advantageous; or are depraved themselves.

Such people have always been a part of the human race and probably always will be. But they should not be allowed to reach positions of power.

50 posted on 07/28/2002 5:29:53 PM PDT by Savage Beast
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To: Washington-Husky
Mr. Language Guy herewith abdicates.
51 posted on 07/28/2002 5:33:19 PM PDT by IronJack
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To: IronJack
Sorry, no need for drastic measures! I'm only verifying from checking 5 different Russian Dictionaries, as well as the Webster's English Dictionary.

None of my Russian dictionaries even has a listing for the "tsarina" spelling, all only list "tsaritsa" - wife of a tsar.

My Webster's dictionary lists both words, but under "tsaritsa" it simply has, as the definition: = tsarina.

There could be some finer point to the definitions of these two words that I don't know about.... it's just that I've been unable to find it in several dictionaries, nor in my encyclopedia.

In any case, Ivan the Terrible was a real "zhopa".

52 posted on 07/28/2002 5:41:59 PM PDT by Washington-Husky
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To: Washington-Husky
So how do you say IronJack in Russian?
53 posted on 07/28/2002 5:45:47 PM PDT by Savage Beast
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To: Savage Beast
It depends on whether the "Jack" is derived from the name Jacob, which is "Yakov" in Russian.... or is from the name "John" which is Ivan in Russian.

So, it could be "Yakov-zhelezen" or "Ivan-zhelezen", (where the adjective follows the noun it modifies, so it would be more like "Jack of Iron" in Russian as opposed to Iron Jack) or some other variation along that theme.

BTW, Joseph Stalin derived his name "stalin" from the Russian word for steel, so "Stalin" means "of steel" or "like steel" in Russian. (He was a native Georgian by birth, his real name was Joseph Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili). Many thought he was a real "zhopa" too.

54 posted on 07/28/2002 5:59:27 PM PDT by Washington-Husky
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To: Savage Beast
The title "Czar" or "Tsar" came about when Ivan IV's grandfather, Ivan III, married Sophia Paleologous, the neice of Constantine XIII, the last Byzantine Emporer.
55 posted on 07/28/2002 6:05:32 PM PDT by writmeister
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To: Washington-Husky
I knew that Ivan meant John and that Stalin meant of steel. I thought Vladimir meant Walter. No?

I love languages. I would love to read Dostoyevsky in Russian. I called the Russian embassy in Washington and asked for the correct pronunciation of Rachmaninov and Karinina; they were very helpful.

56 posted on 07/28/2002 8:31:45 PM PDT by Savage Beast
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To: writmeister
Well that explains it. Thank you. --SB
57 posted on 07/28/2002 8:33:01 PM PDT by Savage Beast
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To: Savage Beast
There are people living today who would love to surpass Ivan in every depraved act and in depravity itself. Some are intelligent enough to reach positions of great power.

Saddam Hussien seems to be a good runner up. He has the qualifications - purges of his staff, murder of his relatives, slaughter of his people not suspected of being loyal, and a huge ego.

58 posted on 07/29/2002 6:36:46 AM PDT by Hacksaw
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To: dixie sass
Ping
59 posted on 07/29/2002 6:40:43 AM PDT by dixie sass
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To: Hacksaw
Yes, I would put Saddam in that category.
60 posted on 07/29/2002 10:36:38 AM PDT by Savage Beast
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