Retired Airline Pilot sues NTSB for "Zoom-climb" data

http://www.twa800.com/lahr/lahr-amended.htm ^ | 7/27/02 | John Fiorentino

[JohnFiorentino]

Retired airline Pilot Capt. Ray Lahr has brought suit against the NTSB for release of the data pertaining to the alleged "zoom-climb" by TWA800. NTSB has stated that this event was what the hundreds of witnesses observed prior to the TWA800 explosion.

You can view the amended complaint in it's entirety here:

http://www.twa800.com/lahr/lahr-amended.htm

[JohnFiorentino]

TIMELINE (Outline) with Comments

IE 20:31:12

MF 20:31:36

Splashdown 20:31:54

But NO turn to the RIGHT----A turn to the LEFT or North as evidenced by the debris field, and sooting patterns on right wing.

[JohnFiorentino]

TIMELINE (Outline) with Comments

IE 20:31:12

MF 20:31:36

Splashdown 20:31:54

But NO turn to the RIGHT----A turn to the LEFT or North as evidenced by the debris field, and sooting patterns on right wing.

[JohnFiorentino]

Coming articles.........

Brookhaven National Labs Report: The Rosetta Stone to the Flight800 Mystery?

Was the FBI Bamboozled about TWA Flight 800?

Who was William Kabofovic?

[Admin Moderator]

knock it off.

[JohnFiorentino]

Since various timelines have been posted as requested by Mr. Asmodeus, perhaps he would like to comment on them, and defend his published timeline?

[JohnFiorentino]

NTSB FLUFFS IT AGAIN

The "Airborne Witness Matrix" posted here by Asmodeus, along with being obfuscative and incomplete is also patently WRONG.

V. AIRBORNE WITNESS MATRIX

"There were several airborne witnesses. Their observations are recorded on the chart below. Except for summaries 070-29,30, and 52, which was the Air National Guard helicopter crew, no airborne witness observed streaks."

You will notice in the NTSB's published document the DUPLICATION of the description...

"STREAK EAST TO WEST"

This duplication is flatly WRONG.

Chris Baur reported a "streak" from WEST to EAST, while Fred Mayer reported a "streak" from EAST to WEST.

"Almost due south [of the helicopter], there was a hard white light, like burning pyrotechnics, in level flight," Capt. Chris Baur told investigators. "I was trying to figure out what it was. .. It struck an object coming from the right and made it explode." ..... Two NY Air National Guard pilots with the best view of the crash of TWA 800 ....... one believes the airliner was struck by a fast-moving object coming from the east, while the other saw a fiery trail from the west....

[Asmodeus]

"lets summarize post #703, where you emphasize a witness chart?(!!!) Curious how you are using these witnesses to support your theory. Aren't some of them 20-25 miles away? Most pilots stated that the haze was more prevalent and obscuring at the higher altitudes. You have no problem making the big "stretch" here to nail down your theory? For all you blustering, this is your foundation? I find it incredible for you to revive these witnesses, and use them for your theories after you spend all your efforts assassinating them!" [emphasis yours]

The "witness chart?(!!!), as you put it to try to cast suspicion on it, is from the Donaldson brothers' "shootdown" website. Here's a better gif version from another "shootdown" tinfoil hat's website.

NTSB AIRBORNE WITNESS MATRIX

The allegation that I have been "assassinating" witnesses earns you the right to be the first tinfoil hat recipient of the following:

[FormerLurker]

notice the witness matrix or chart he uses in support of HIS theory, has entries for TWO explosions and TWO fireballs!

I love it when he inadvertently provides us with more data... LOL

[FormerLurker]

From your link, "Reporters who tattle risk losing their jobs and being blacklisted in the business…. That should tell you something about the news you’re getting."

While many suspect as much, most people are in a state of denial. They live in a fantasy world where they believe practically everything that the "news media" spews out. "Into the Buzzsaw" appears to be a must read for those who desire to know what really goes on.

Thanks for the link backhoe...

[backhoe]

Appreciate your looking-thanks!

[Asmodeus]

Update.

[FormerLurker]

So when you can't win an argument with facts, put up a website to ridicule Freepers, eh? Now that's sort of a round-about way of launching a personal attack, don't you think?

[FormerLurker]

So Asmodeus, what do you think about the facts concerning the radar returns and how they prove your timeline to be impossible?

And what do you think about the intimidation of investigators and jounalists concerning TWA800?

And finally, what gives you the right to call yourself an expert in analyzing witness statements in relation to the crash of an aircraft? Are you saying that you work for the NTSB?

[Asmodeus]

"'Almost due south [of the helicopter], there was a hard white light, like burning pyrotechnics, in level flight,' Capt. Chris Baur told investigators. 'I was trying to figure out what it was. It struck an object coming from the right and made it explode.'"

David Mayer - NTSB: I mentioned that the Safety Board interviewed the co-pilot of the national guard helicopter. The helicopter co-pilot was debriefed after the flight on the night of the accident and he reported that he saw a large section of debris engulfed in flames and falling and, that as it was falling a piece of wreckage broke off and he saw it fall in flames, as well. He didn't report seeing anything in the sky before he saw this debris. Certainly he didn't say that he saw a streak of light. A few days later, he was interviewed by the FBI and he reported that he had seen a fireball -- a pyro? or a flare type object in the sky before the flame and debris. We interviewed him in 1997 -- in January, 1997 -- about this discrepancy and he said he didn't remember the streak until the next day.
Source.

The "Missile Witnesses" Myth

[JohnFiorentino]

That's all very interesting, but irrelevant.

It doesn't address your timeline, nor your posting of NTSB corrupted data.

I will reserve comment on Dr. Mayer.

[FormerLurker]

So what do you think about the fact that your timeline is impossible due to the radar data?

What gives you the right to call yourself an expert in analyzing witness statements in relation to the crash of an aircraft??

And again, what do you think about the intimidation of investigators and journalists concerning TWA800?

One other thing you haven't answerered. Why is it that your timeline disagrees with the data you present as your source material?