Forest Service tells tenant 20-foot flagpole must go

AP - via www.modbee.com ^ | July 20, 2002 | THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

[Brytani]

The U.S. Forest Service told one of its tenants that his 20-foot flagpole is unauthorized and has to go.

David Knickerbocker has flown the American flag on the pole next to his summer cabin in the El Dorado National Forest for nearly two decades. He leases a quarter-acre lot.

[Brytani]

Good fine, I'm writing my e-mail now.

[Brytani]

"What do they do with sewage?"

Obviously they have no problems with sewage disposal, they just shoot it out of their mouths from time to time.

[Brytani]

According to the House "find your rep" site, John T. Doolittle (R-CA) covers the area.

E-mail is on the way.

[Khepera]

"If you're putting holes in the ground where Native Americans once resided, that needs an archaeological review," Forest Service spokesman Frank Mosbacher said.

Didn''t they dig footers for the house?

[Brytani]

PLEASE keep us/me informed as to your fight.

[jwin]

If you are looking for an idiot, just wait-sooner or later some bureaucratic buffoon from the government will make themselves known.

[G.Mason]

"OF COURSE, this is todays nutty ruling. Tomorrow, we will be distracted by yet another power grab by Big Brother. So, it is very difficult to keep our focus because we are being hit on the left side of our face, then just before we respond, we are hit again, but on the right side, day after day, after day."

Well said.

It brings to mind the saying ....."Dying from a thousand cuts".

The attacking "pack dogs" need to be aimed at and "picked off" one by one.

[zip]

Intelligent and polite people do not shout to get their point across

It got my attention and that was the point. I liked it. (Mensa member)

[KS Flyover]

[Vic3O3]

ping, for my flag-waving Marine husband!

[Reagan is King]

A Forest Service spokesman said Mr. Bosworth was out of town Friday and was unable to comment.

How convenient.

[lds23]

Hey, Forest Service, I know exactly where I'd like to put the 20-foot flagpole.

Flying the Flag is protected by the First Amendment.

[blackie]

Here is one of two letters I've received, after writing several civil servants about it:

I agree with you, if only it were true.

The Forest Service has always allowed recreation residence permittees to fly the flag. The Placerville Ranger District also works with permittees who want a flag pole in a way that accommodates the desires of the permittee and other tract residents. The District Ranger and staff work with the other permittees in the summer home tract to find a visible and suitable location for a shared flag pole. This is not about being able to fly the American flag.

In the same compliance review it was found that Mr. Knickerbocker had five other compliance issues. Mr. Knickerbocker has never asked for a flag pole, or requested that the one, he illegally installed, be added to his permit. It appears based on Mr. Knickerbockers actions that he believes he owns the land rather than leasing it from the American public in direct violation of the terms of his permit. When Mr Knickerbocker requests the flag pole be added to his permit, the District Ranger will work with him to do that.

The permit administrators are just public servants trying to do their job. It is unfortunate that Mr. Knickerbocker decided to make a public issue of this matter. It was also unfortunate that the permit administrator mistakenly indicated that flag poles are not authorized. I am truly sorry for the misunderstanding.


John D. Berry
Forest Supervisor
Eldorado National Forest
530-621-5206 (office)
530-621-5282 (fax)
916-768-4371 (cell)

[blackie]

Second letter from civil servant. I sent 9 emails to various civil servants, both elected and appointed... :o)


File Code: 2720
Date:

Honorable Richard W. Pombo
U.S. House of Representatives
2411 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515

Dear Congressman Pombo:
The Chief asked me to respond to your July 17, 2002, letter to him in which you expressed concern that your constituent, Mr. David Knickerbocker, has been directed to remove a flagpole from his recreation residence lot. Your concern was prompted by a July 8, 2002, letter that Mr. Knickerbocker received from the Eldorado National Forest, documenting the findings of an inspection of the lot that Mr. Knickerbocker uses and occupies.

Let me correct the misstatement regarding flagpoles on recreation residence lots from the July 8, 2002, letter to Mr. Knickerbocker. It is not the case that “flagpoles are not authorized for Recreation Residences.” Under the appropriate circumstances, flagpoles can be constructed on recreation residence lots. Mr. Knickerbocker’s right to erect a flagpole is not at issue. At issue is Mr. Knickerbocker’s compliance with the Recreation Residence Special Use Authorization he signed.

The July 8, 2002, letter from the Forest listed a series of items that needed the attention of Mr. Knickerbocker to bring the use, appearance, and facilities on the lot that he occupies into compliance with the terms and conditions of his special use permit. Item #5 [of 6] in that letter directed Mr. Knickerbocker to remove the unauthorized flagpole he had constructed on his lot. The basis of that direction are the terms and conditions of the special use permit, which require the holder to seek the approval of the authorized officer in advance of constructing or maintaining any improvements of any kind not specifically authorized in the permit. Specifically, under its Terms and Conditions, Section III Improvements, Clause A states, “…nothing in this permit shall be construed to imply permission to build or maintain any improvement not specifically named on the face of this permit or approved in writing by the authorized officer in the operation and maintenance plan.” There is no record that Mr. Knickerbocker sought approval from the Forest Service to erect a flagpole on this lot.

In preparing this response, this office contacted the Eldorado National Forest about this matter. Forest personnel responsible for the administration of this special use permit have informed us that prior to July 8, 2002, Mr. Knickerbocker had been sent a letter giving him the opportunity to request that his permit be amended to accommodate the improvements and changes on his lot that are not already authorized in his special use permit. If Mr. Knickerbocker includes a flagpole in such a request, the Forest has informed us that they will amend his recreation residence special use permit and formally authorize a flagpole.

Part #2
Honorable Richard W. Pombo
I want to assure you that flying the American flag is not discouraged on national forests. The flag flies at all ranger district and forest supervisor offices on every forest. Recreation residence owners are told that flags can be mounted with a metal bracket on the side of their cabins. As indicated above, individual recreation residence owners may also request prior authorization to build improvements, such as flagpoles, to their lots. If a recreation residence tract forms an association, that association is welcome to submit a request for approval from the District Ranger for a community flagpole.

I hope this adequately addresses your concerns in your letter to Chief Bosworth. Please feel free to contact Randy Karstaedt, our Special Uses Program Leader, at this office, (202) 205-1256, if you have any questions.
Sincerely,

/s/


JACK L. CRAVEN
Director of Lands


Cc: R-5
Eldorado National Forest, R-5

MICROSOFT WORD:A.L. RICHARD:7/19/02:LANDS/2700_LANDS_USES/
HONORABLE RICHARD POMBO LETTER (KNICKERBOCKER):ng:7/19/02:F-1

[weegee]

What do they do with sewage? Do they have a septic tank or an outhouse? Will both be outlawed as well?

When they outlaw septic tanks and outhouses, only outlaws will have...

[headsonpikes]

"IS IT TIME YET?"

Sorry for shouting.

[Grampa Dave]

Great job on your emails and what came back is is very interesting.

This all reminds of the a$$holes with fire departments in BeZerkley and other areas which refused to fly American flags or tried to stop firemen from flying flags.

They backed down as soon as word got on and in the streets.

This sounds like an issue that should be on the air and on the conservative internet sites.

We have over 200,000 acres of Oregon burning due to the eco druids in the Forestry Service and about 6 new fires in Kalifornia. Then we have these pink panty wearing Florist Service Nuns worrying about flag poles. It is time they retire from the Florist Service aka Forestry service and move to San Francisco to be with their sisters, the dykes of bikes.

[Hillary's Lovely Legs]

I live in an area that was a French trading post with native americans. There was an elevated berm that the indians built and used as a road along the lake.

We have paved it over and call it Mack Ave. Now what's the government going to do about it!?!

[Grampa Dave]

Go get them babe, and we fellow rowdies are with you!

[TexConfederate1861]

naaaaaaaa! Just beat the cr*p out of them!