Posted on 07/19/2002 1:59:31 PM PDT by Charles Henrickson
Edited on 04/23/2004 12:04:39 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
You would think that the more militant forms of Islam would be enough to worry about these days, for those inclined to anguish over religious extremism. But no. Apparently the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod deserves our special concern. In late June, the church suspended the Rev. David Benke, the president of its Atlantic District and the pastor of a Brooklyn church, for praying with clerics who don't share the Christian faith.
(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...
Hits the nail on the head.
Do you have the right to consider the position repellent? You Betcha. But Un-American? Puhleeze!
Could you please explain to all and sundry how the American concept of freedom of religion is incompatible with a church that does not force anyone to join, and does not threaten bodily harm to anyone that does not join? Are you proposing a Theocracy where only YOUR ecumenical beliefs are acceptable? The LCMS fled from this belief in Germany TO America, because her beliefs WERE compatible with American thought.
Really?
YES! They were so offended they killed him!.
Jesus probably would have attended an interfaith gathering, however, would he have acted as if he were one of many ways to reach heaven. NO!
The pastors sin was to confuse the issue, implying by his actions, presence and namby pamby prayer that Christianity is no different than Muslimism, Hinduism etc.
Jesus was no wimp.
That's not quite "all paths lead to satori", but we must not think we can limit God with human rules and standards. He is eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, well beyond the characteristics of the typical shamanistic god.
Presumably God can extend His Grace to whoever and wherever and whenever in any guise.
It looks like they turn their backs on their own!
Somebody should come in here and tell me why that is not so, but that's what it looks like, and that is beyond "cold".
charles henrickson:
My point to Charles Henrickson is irt your accuracy with the facts. The LCMS conservatives (?) do not have the right to make things up and impugn a man's character because they don't like what this pastor did.
egarvue:
Based on your false report egarvue said this:
"What a glory-seeking, lying, Clintonesque scum!"
You don't have a right to name the Name of Christ and twist other people's words to say what you'd like them to say. That is deceitful. That is what is called sin, since you guys are on the subject of detecting other people's sin.
This reporter shaded the truth and then Charles Henrickson, you followed her lead and led egarvue astray. http://www.newsday.com /features/religion/ny-nymain232380683sep23.story?coll=ny [my aplogy for not knowing how to do a link] has a printed copy of this man's name in the program ahead of the event. What do you accusers make of that? An honest person would retract his comments as slander and apologize to all in the same venue as the offense occurred. That'd be real nice. I'll be watching but I won’t be holding my breath.
That's not quite "all paths lead to satori", but we must not think we can limit God with human rules and standards. He is eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, well beyond the characteristics of the typical shamanistic god.
Presumably God can extend His Grace to whoever and wherever and whenever in any guise.
The text you quote is generally meant to mean that there is room for all in heaven, not that there are numerous ways to get there or that every human being will be there. Many mansions means many houses, many rooms. To twist that into meaning there are many ways to attain salvation is a mistake that many make. Often purposefully.
God possesses all of the supernatural attributes you give him but that means that His Word is not mistaken when Jesus says: "I am the Way the Truth and the Life. No man comes to the Father but through Me". Jesus did not lie.
Your presumption is incorrect. The 'guise' He presented was Himself, not a Muslim worshipping a moon-god or any of the many, many other false gods man has presented as 'The Way to God'. They are false - or Christ was a fake and a liar and died for no purpose.
I'll take God's Word over the words of mortal men who claim to have found 'another way' to Him. A way that seems to always eliminate Jesus Christ. Sorry if that's too 'exclusionary' for some but they need to take it up with God, He made the rules.
As for Rev. Benke, he needs to reexamine why he is a member of the church he helps lead as he clearly does not wish to abide by it's reasonable rules regarding the clergy that represent it.
The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod is correct here and Rev. Benke seems more interested in publicity than reverence. As for not worshipping with other 'faiths', I'm not of theis demonination but as a Christian I can pray with any other Christian; that is, one who accepts Jesus Christ as God's Son and our savior and the only way to salvation. I will quibble about other doctrine but a Christian is my brother/sister in Christ.
Other religions that do not acknowledge Christ as Savior are not my brothers but they are my neighbors, in a Bibical manner of speaking. I cannot pray with them as they pray to a false god but I can help them in non-religious ways and I wish them no harm. I would pray for them, not with them.
As for what Jesus would do; He would do as he did when he was on earth. He would proclaim Himself the savior of mankind as a living sacrifice for man's sin. He would procaim Islam and all the rest false 'faiths' and denounce them. Then He would be dragged away and killed.
Many LCMS churches held commemorative services for victims of 9/11. Our country and all victims' families were prayed for. We agree that at times like this a "religious component" is appropriate.
...the LCMS is appearing to be saying that the non-LCMS dead are not worthy of being commemorated, clearly something totally opposite to the notion of being an American.
It is the doctrine of the LCMS that all forms of syncretism are to be rejected. This includes commemorative services with a "religious component" because it gives the impression that one religion is just as good as another. We believe that this can be a stumbling block to those of weak faith, as demonstrated by the example earlier in this thread. We do not believe that non-LCMS dead deserve less outrage for their murder than LCMS dead, or their families less care....if this is what you mean by "not worthy of being commemorated." Nor do our actions say this.
Example. When President Kennedy was assassinated, he was loved by millions of Americans of all religious faiths. Yet he was given a Roman Catholic Funeral. Even though he was America's President, did this mean that the grief felt by non-Catholic mourning Americans was somehow less worthy than the grief felt by Catholic mourners? Of course not. We recognized the private right of the Kennedy family to their own "religious components", just as the LCMS has a right to their own. This is not un-American. This is as American as it gets.
I find this position of the part of the LCMS incomprehensible and frankly loony.
I hope the above helps. Should you desire to comprehend the "incomprehensible", I would suggest going to a major library or Lutheran church and checking out a copy of The Book of Concord.
I will say that is the first time I have heard such interpretation of that scripture. I don't know about satori, and I don't have a shamanistic God. He is eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent - and CONSTANT. He does not change with the prevailing winds.
I do believe God wants us to love and care for everyone, regardless of religion. I do not believe that extends to validating other religions by 'praying' with them. Praying for them, yes, with them, as they pray to their gods, is another thing.
As for God extending his grace to everyone, I believe he does. I do not, will not, could not, judge their souls, that is God's province.
John 4:7-42....Samaritans
Mark 7:24-30....Syrians
Luke 7:1-10....Romans
Matthew 28:18-20....Everybody in the whole wide world
I can go on. The point is, regardless of his audience, Jesus told them the truth in love....whether their itching ears wanted to hear it or not.
You are not going to catch me worshipping one or the other in a pantheon of lesser gods.
So "constant" - I don't know. God could be constant, or He could elect to be otherwise. As far as "prayer" representing worship of this, that or another god, it might, or it might not. If words have binding power over God, then it's a real issue; otherwise, with an omniscient God, He'll know who has a legitimate prayer and who doesn't.
And that takes us right back to the Priest, Melchizedek in ancient times. Was he, in fact, a manifestation of the Triune God, or was he merely a man? Jesus references to Him are quite interesting, and I don't think Calvinists or Lutherans, or Catholics, or Moslems, or Hindus, or Buddhists, or any other variety can move the issue ahead until we get a clear understanding of Melchizedek!
Paul's ministry was to the gentiles.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.