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To: SandfleaCSC
You may just be doing your child a disservice by taking the moral highground and "towing the party line" on life while not taking into account our own biology and how humans interact with each other in the real world. Let's face it, we all have issues with sexuality, intimacy, and relationships during the transition from adolescence to adulthood, and sometimes even after maturity.

What a bunch of crap. How, pray tell, is taking the moral high ground ever a disservice to my daughter? And please explain to me why all of a sudden human beings are no longer capable of exercising self control over their bodily functions. And please don't the cloud the distinction between affection and sexual gratification. If you understand what the scriptures say, then you should readily believe that God gives us the ability to "put to death" the desires of the flesh by exercising self-control. Do you realize that the Bible also talks about a husband's body not belonging to him, but belongs to his wife. And likewise, the women's body is not her own, but belongs to her husband. Sort of leaves very little room for the kind of self-gratification being exercised by both the married and unmarried.

Your daughter may be into her mid to late 20s before she starts learning some of life's toughest lessons. She will be at such a disadvantage compared to the majority of people who don't hold pre-marital sex or co-habitation in such contempt...it may even ruin a good marriage or relationship in her future.

Moral relativism pure and simple. So, life's toughest lessons have to be learned the hard way? "Good news, Daddy!! I just learned one of life's hardest lessons!...But the bad news is that I'm six months pregnant, and I'm not exactly sure who the father is." What disadvantage are you suggesting she might have...not knowing all the positions of the Kama Sutra?

Besides that, physical intimacy is a tremendously important part in any normal relationship and sometimes two people just don't click. Who wants to sign a 50 year lease on a car without test driving it at least once?

The siren song of "Just Do It" me-me-me generation living is getting old.

Let me ask you this, when you and your daughter discuss sex, do you portray it as some kind of dirty necessity or do you describe it as an expression of love and affection between two people? The devil is always in the details.

When a man and woman live to please one another and not themselves, how can it be a dirty necessity?

As far as marriage goes, let me pose another question? Let's take two different couples for an example, neither couple with any children to legitimize. Both couples love, honor, and respect each other in a committed monogamous relationship. One couple has a piece of paper from the state that says they are married, one does not. Which pair is more favored by God? Does God care anymore for the couple endorsed by a local government?

I'll make it a worse case scenario. Did Adam and Eve have a piece of paper? Probably not, but they had approval and a witness to their union, which is probably why cultures throughout history valued marriage ceremonies. The scripture says that by the word of 2 or 3 witnesses let every fact be confirmed. I've never seen a ceremony for shacking up, have you?

64 posted on 07/17/2002 6:33:04 PM PDT by Sangamon Kid
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To: Sangamon Kid
You're raising your daughter appropriately. You're right, moral relativism is definitely wrong, and it has effected society to such an extreme. Your daughter will not be at a disadvantage, but at an advantage, for why would she want to give herself to someone who is promiscuous?

As a 25 year old, Bible believing male, I can assure you, there are plenty of guys out there who do not believe like many of the responses here.

68 posted on 07/17/2002 6:56:41 PM PDT by FreedomFriend
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To: Sangamon Kid
And please don't the cloud the distinction between affection and sexual gratification.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how draconian. For rest of us in mature, healthy relationships those two things do go hand in hand. You seem to fall all over yourself to separate sex and love when its not really necessary.

Do you realize that the Bible also talks about a husband's body not belonging to him, but belongs to his wife. And likewise, the women's body is not her own, but belongs to her husband.

Here you stumble again. I am familiar with the passage as it is written in the Torah. The King James version loses a little something in the translation. A husband's life belongs not to him, but resides within his wife. I'd be glad to quote the passage for you, but my keyboard speaks poor Hebrew.

Moral relativism pure and simple. So, life's toughest lessons have to be learned the hard way? "Good news, Daddy!! I just learned one of life's hardest lessons!...But the bad news is that I'm six months pregnant, and I'm not exactly sure who the father is."

Hmmm...sounds more like a responsibility issue now than a moral one. It's not anyone's job but your own to educate your child about safe sex, monagamy, and accountability. Sounds like you're not so sure you've been up to the task. One thing its so hard to get "holier than thous" to understand is that sex outside of marriage isn't always solely about promiscuity and self-indulgence. A marriage certificate is no guarantee against those either...as always it comes down to how two people feel about each other and how they respect each other.

When a man and woman live to please one another and not themselves, how can it be a dirty necessity?

Bingo. I knew you'd come around eventually.

I'll make it a worse case scenario. Did Adam and Eve have a piece of paper? Probably not, but they had approval and a witness to their union, which is probably why cultures throughout history valued marriage ceremonies. The scripture says that by the word of 2 or 3 witnesses let every fact be confirmed. I've never seen a ceremony for shacking up, have you?

Nope, no shaking up ceremonies unless you count the cookout you have to throw all your friends for helping you move the woman and her mountain of junk in. I have however, thanks to work, been in attendance at two gay weddings given by accredited Christian churches. You may call my personal relationship with God "moral relativism" but I'll take my version over either one of the pastors who performed the gay weddings anyday.
74 posted on 07/17/2002 7:26:44 PM PDT by SandfleaCSC
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To: Sangamon Kid
I've never seen a ceremony for shacking up, have you? Actually I have. It's called a handfast, it's mostly practiced by SCA (medeival/ renessaince recreationists, not the most sane people in the world but generally harmless) dweebs and it's largely used as kind of a halfway step towards marriage. It's got all the cool parts about a wedding (dressing up, gathering family and friend, food and drink) without the paperwork, and it's got some sort of parallel with period history though I don't know the details. Just being complete for historical reference purposes.
83 posted on 07/17/2002 8:24:37 PM PDT by discostu
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