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Freeper Views on Origins
Alamo-Girl | 7/16/2002 | Alamo-Girl

Posted on 07/16/2002 9:33:12 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl

IMHO, there are many Freepers who either have a curiosity about origins or have formulated an opinion they would like to share. However, the debate on many threads frequently gets side-tracked – which makes it difficult for a reader to explore all the alternative points of view.

Therefore I’m starting this new thread in the hopes that anyone who wishes to do so, would present their full overview of origins– along with their sources and logic. Rebuttals would be nice, but I strongly hope the rebuttals will follow the same format, providing sources and logic.

I’ll start the discussion by providing my "take" on origins, which is a Christian creation point of view but reconciles with science, including evolution and intelligent design. I use both Scripture and science references for sources.

Alamo-Girl’s "take:"

My perception of reality drives my understanding of creation. I perceive the physical realm to be a manifestation of the spiritual realm and therefore science and Genesis are consistent on origins. Those who perceive the physical realm as all that there is, and the spiritual realm to be an illusion, will be prejudiced and thus will vigorously disagree.

Following are foundations to my understanding:

The Bible is the inerrant Word of God. It is a revealed truth which cannot be discovered scientifically, a person either hears His voice or not.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: - John 10:27

Not everyone is able or willing to hear. To many who don’t, we who do seem foolish.

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
That no flesh should glory in his presence – I Corinthians 1:27-29

One phrase from the previous quote has a bearing to my understanding of science: "and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence". The laws of physics break down in singularities, e.g. at the inception of the "big bang." Velocity, density, mass, size and so forth have no finite meaning in a singularity because they either become 'zero' or infinite with nothing in between in a mathematical sense.

The Bible is inerrant even to the tense of each word.

But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. – Matthew 22:31-32 (emphasis mine)

The phrase "have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God" makes it clear that the author of the written Word is God and that it is written to us, to be read carefully. The second verse makes it clear that we ought to apply logic to the Word.

For all these reasons, I know that creation was accomplished by God in 6 days just like He said. I also recognize that the universe appears to be billions of years old. I see both statements are true and compatible due to the effect the expansion of the universe has on the perception of time depending on the observer’s point of view.

As an example, let’s say a galaxy is so far away that the light from it that we see today left the galaxy when the universe was a small fraction of its present age and has been traveling for 14 billion years. If the galaxy was only 1 billion light years away at the time the light was sent out to us, why would it take 14 billion light years to travel 1 billion light years distance?

The short answer is that space itself expands. The light from the far galaxy is traveling towards us essentially at a constant speed, but because space itself is expanding, it takes longer to get here.

Interesting space-time chart

What came before the big bang?

Inflation for Beginners

Neither space nor time pre-exist. Space-time is the effect of the universe expanding. Our viewpoint is from some point in the expansion – which is clearly not from God’s viewpoint. God alone was the observer of creation. Genesis is written by Him, from His point of view.

As a final principle, because God uses words which have common usage but are also defined as symbols elsewhere in His Word, I look for these defined word-symbols and read verses with both the common usage and the symbolic usage to see which "rings true" spiritually.

Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. – Matthew 13:9-11

Following is my "take" on creation:

Day 1

The first Day of creation, 24 equivalent solar hours from the point of view of God as the observer, would appear to be about 8 billion years elapsed from our viewpoint today. In other words, if He sent me a message on a photon at the beginning of that day, if I existed, I would have received it 8 billion years later, from my point of view.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

The first day was spent in creating light and separating it from darkness.

The word "darkness" is used repeatedly in the Scriptures to symbolize evil.

Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. – I Thess 5:5

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to [give] the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. – 2 Corinthians 4:6

The word "light" is used repeatedly to symbolize His divinity, holiness, goodness.

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. – I John 1:5

Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. – John 8:12

I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. – John 12:46

Notice that both "Day" and "Night" are capitalized as proper names. As we can see in I Thes 5:5 "day" parallels "light" and "night" parallels "darkness" - spiritually. Believers are children of the light, a point to keep in mind as we explore Adam in the subsequent days.

The use of the phrase "without form, and void" indicates that there was originally no physical existence.

The phrase "the deep" is symbolized in Romans 10:7 to mean death (lifelessness.) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

The word "waters" is symbolized in Revelation 17:15 to mean peoples, multitudes, nations and tongues. And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Since obviously there was no physical life, the word "waters" must mean "tongues." There has been much discussion about what the term "tongues" means. It is used throughout Scripture along with references to nations, peoples or beings – but, in context at this point of the creation, I understand "tongues" to mean intelligent sounds or thought.

Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? - I Corinthians 14:6-7

I find the phrase "God said" to be very important in understanding what was going on in the physical realm while all this was happening in the spiritual realm.

I believe the resonance of God speaking caused the physical realm to come into existence because it was, in effect, a higher dimensional shockwave. It would be known as the "big bang." In the physical realm, the consequence of His speaking in Day 1, from our four dimensional viewpoint, would look like a cosmic soup.

Publications on the big bang and higher dimensional dynamics

Exactly when, during the first day, He spoke, it doesn’t say. He moved upon the face of the "waters" before He spoke. So my 8 billion years for the first day might be a tad high.

Day 2

The second Day of creation, 24 equivalent solar hours from the point of view of God as the observer, would appear to be about 4 billion years elapsed from our viewpoint today.

And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so.
And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

The word "heaven" can mean a number of different things based on how it is used. Sometimes it refers to the firmament, as in the above passage, and sometimes "heaven" refers to the spiritual realm or the sky above. Sometimes it is used in plural. In every usage, the word speaks to a higher order, an "aboveness" - and here it is capitalized as a proper name.

And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. – Matthew 16:19

And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. – Acts 1:10-11

These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, - Genesis 2:4

I find the use of the plural of heaven interesting in light of the "multiple universe" theory currently being proposed. Although the theory doesn’t do violence to my "take" on creation, it should be noted that the "multiple universes from multiple quantum fluctuations" is a rather convenient answer to why our universe happens to have just the right physical laws to support life, i.e. the other ones that don’t have the right physical laws may also exist if there are multiple universes. In other words, without more research, the multi-universe theory feels contrived to me.

IMHO, it was a good and proper thing when Einstein raised a red flag on his own cosmological constant simply because it appeared kluged. Of course, the cosmological constant has gained support today, but by Einstein’s disclaiming his own theory, he has the higher moral ground IMHO.

Again, I take "waters" to mean tongues (intelligent sounds or thoughts.) Since physical realm beings don’t exist yet on day 2, I take this to mean that He was separating the spiritual realm from the natural realm. Or to put it another way, all lower waters (tongues, sounds, thought) were relegated beneath the firmament, which I believe is also a barrier between the spiritual realm and the natural realm.

I do not believe the barrier can be defined by geometric coordinates like a physical location. I see the physical and spiritual realm coexisting everywhere but separated by the firmament.

Some Kabbalist analysis arrived at this concept and suggested that the barrier is the speed of light and resonance itself (superstrings in the natural realm) along with thought are the only known common properties between the two realms.

Physics and Kabbala

This is appealing because we occupy our thoughts (Proverbs 23:7 - For as he thinketh in his heart, so [is] he:) and it is through thought that we receive Christ, pray and worship. And of course, Jesus emphasized in the Sermon on the Mount that thinking an evil deed has the same effect as doing it.

The Kabbalist view is also appealing because the speed of light is the delimiting factor to much of our current understanding. And the resonance observation would fit well with current research on higher dimensional dynamics.

In search of extra dimensions (Fermi Lab)

I see the barrier firmament like a one way mirror. The physical realm cannot clearly see into the spiritual realm, but the spiritual realm can see into the physical realm. The reason I suspect it works this way is because of I Cor 13:12 and what happened on day 6 (see below.)

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. – I Corinthians 13:12

Current theory is that the sun formed some 4.55 billion years ago from a supernova 5 billion years ago and that the earth is 4.5 billion years old, with the chemicals to support life existing on (physical) earth about 4 billion years ago. The NASA Genesis spacecraft will return with solar material in 2004 that will help test these theories. If all these theories hold true, then these building blocks to our solar system as we know it today were spawned during the 2nd Day.

 

Day 3

The third Day of creation, 24 equivalent solar hours from the point of view of God as the observer, would appear to be about 2 billion years elapsed from our viewpoint today.

And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry [land] appear: and it was so.

And God called the dry [land] Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that [it was] good.
And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [is] in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
And the earth brought forth grass, [and] herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed [was] in itself, after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
And the evening and the morning were the third day.

On this day I believe God created in the spiritual realm a perfect growing garden for spiritual beings. In this context, I believe "waters" refers to the common usage of the term, but the phrase "under the heaven" instead of "under the firmament of heaven" indicates that it was happening in the spiritual realm, above the firmament. Here the word "earth" is capitalized as a proper name. I believe this is supported by this later verse where God refers to having made the plants before they were in the earth (physical realm.)

And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and [there was] not a man to till the ground. – Genesis 2:5

My understanding of what was happening on day 3 has a lot to do with the garden of Eden. In Genesis 2 and Revelations 2 we see that the tree of life is in the center of Eden (Genesis) and Paradise (Revelation.) That tells me that Eden is either in the center of, or is the same thing as, the spiritual realm of Paradise.

There may be a physical "model" of Eden in the natural realm (like with the ark or the temple) – but it would only be a model and not the real (perfect) thing. After the creation week, I believe Adam was banished into a physical body in the natural realm specifically to make him mortal. Before then, there was no death or decay in Adam’s "world." (Genesis 2)

I believe Adam was banished into the body of a hominid, a modern physical earth-man, probably on Day 7. I believe other hominids existed, but only the spiritual descendants of Adam could have his essence, the life that was breathed into him.

And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. – Genesis 2:6

I suspect these spiritual descendants are the ones who have ears to hear and are the ones for whom the Bible is written, the ones He already knew.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. – Romans 8:29-30

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.
I and [my] Father are one. - John 10:26-30

Speaking of "ears to hear," the Word comes alive especially quick to me when reading the gospel of John. It is a love letter.

Current research shows that there are microfossils at 3.5 billion years in the fossil record and that atmospheric oxygen increased about 2.1 billion years ago. That would indicate some modeling activity was occurring in the physical realm to correspond with creation of the garden Earth in Paradise on Day 3.

 

Day 4

The fourth Day of creation, 24 equivalent solar hours from the point of view of God as the observer, would appear to be about 1 billion years elapsed from our viewpoint today.

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.
And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that [it was] good.
And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Because of the phrase "firmament of the heaven" I believe this refers to the physical realm, the structure of the solar system as we know it today – specific orbits and such. Notice how the word "earth" is now lower cased, not a proper name.

As mentioned previously, the Genesis project of NASA will help to clarify what was happening in the formation of the solar system. I am curious if any catastrophic events occurred in our solar system approximately 1 to 2 billion years ago.

We already know of strange phenomenon in the solar system: that the orbits of the planets and satellites lie roughly in the same plane (the plane of the ecliptic) – that they orbit and rotate in the prograde direction, with axis tilts of less than 30 degrees and nearly circular orbits.

The fossil record indicates the oldest cellular organisms date back to 1.2 billion years, which would be towards the end of Day 4.

Day 5

The fifth Day of creation, 24 equivalent solar hours from the point of view of God as the observer, would appear to be about 1/2 billion years elapsed from our viewpoint today.

And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl [that] may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

Again the phrase "open firmament of heaven" causes me to view the 5th day in the physical realm.

On this day (a 500 million year period to us) God directed the physical realm waters to abundantly bring forth creatures. I see this as what is called "evolution" but clearly guided by intelligent design. The blessing I believe corresponds to the "Cambrian explosion." God’s interventions might be what is known as "punctuated equilibrium."

Of course, the debate rages on evolutionary biology and intelligent design. These verses indicate that we will find evidence of both - because on the one hand God tells the waters to bring forth abundantly (biologically) and other hand He says that He created whales and every living thing that moves, that the water brought forth abundantly (intelligent design.)

From that verse I would expect the fossil record to make a better case for evolutionary biology in the most simple of life forms and for intelligent design to make a better case for the more complex. For a graphic representation of the differences:

Charts of conflicts between Darwin theory and natural history

Day 6

The sixth Day of creation, 24 equivalent solar hours from the point of view of God as the observer, would appear to be about 1/4 billion years elapsed from our viewpoint today.

And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein [there is] life, [I have given] every green herb for meat: and it was so.
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

The sixth day is a split screen to me, because it doesn’t delimit to the firmament. The first two sentences continues the "evolution" on the earth, especially with regard to animals, but limits the creatures to reproduce after their own kind.

So far, the fossil record has shown no new animal phyla after the Cambrian explosion about 500 million years ago. The animals simply proliferate and diversify in agreement with the first two sentences. If the process were entirely natural at this point, I would expect to see fossil evidence of new animal phyla to correspond with the extinctions of 250 and 65 million years ago. I would also expect to see a much larger and diversified fossil record.

The split screen starts in the third passage where He says "Let us make man in our image." I believe this happened in the spiritual realm, i.e. spiritual man (Adam) was given authority over everything in the physical realm, but actually existed in the perfect spiritual realm which was set aside in Day 2 and furnished in Day 3. I believe Adam was banished from the spiritual realm to occupy a mortal body in the physical realm so that he would experience death and decay as punishment for disobediently obtaining the knowledge of good and evil which was established in Day 1.

 

Day 7

The seventh Day of creation, 24 equivalent solar hours from the point of view of God as the observer, would appear to be about 1/8 billion years elapsed from our viewpoint today.

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, - Genesis 2:1-4

This is the day God rested from His work.

The latest Hubble Constant of 72 kilometers per second per megaparsec sets the age of the universe at 14 billion years, or about 12% younger than my total estimate of 15.875 billion years. The 72 measure was based on Cepheid stars, so if there turns out to be a problem with this approach, the constant may be revised again.

Cephid stars

Cepheid stars are stars that have evolved off the main sequence into the Cepheid instability strip. They are regular radial-pulsating stars, with a well-defined period-luminosity relationship, which makes them ideal stars to be used as primary distance indicating standard candles. These stars also show radial velocity variations which correspond to the photometric curves. Brighter cepheids have longer periods than fainter (less luminous!) cepheids.

I haven’t yet discovered how this measure is reconciled with star M92, which was estimated to be 15 billion years old M92 --- but the currently held number is close enough for me because, as I noted in day 1, it is not disclosed exactly when on Day 1 God first spoke.

The effect of the expansion rate of the universe on time is not relevant to subsequent verses, because the focus of the Scriptures changes from the Creator’s viewpoint to the Adamic viewpoint --- life on (lower case) earth.

The countdown began when Adam was banished. We are at about year 5762 of the countdown.

The physical realm is still under the Adamic dominion and therefore suffers empathetically.

For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,
Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body. – Romans 8:19-23

Summary

The creation week begins with language, thought, tongues, sounds. On personal experience, I know the Word is alive. And it is the written Word that tells me that Jesus is the Word made flesh. From John 1:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not..
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. – John 1:1-14

The spiritual descendants of Adam were not made for the physical realm – we were made for the spiritual realm. The Bible is a spiritual work and should be read that way. It shows us the way back home, which is through Jesus Christ (Romans 8:29-30)

Of course, I cannot be sure if my "take" on how the Bible reconciles with science is correct until the rest of me gets to the other side, but the flow of what I have written here rings true to my spirit, and in the end, that’s what counts to me.

 


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: agnostic; atheism; belief; creation; crevolist; evolution; genesis; god; intelligentdesign; philosophy
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To: Alamo-Girl
[I was asked to re-post this by Alamo-Girl]

I am Christian -- have been all my life. But I have always had problems understanding Genesis the way it is commonly preached.

For example, it is written that God created the "Day" and the "Night" on the first "day". But he did not create the "greater and lesser" lights (the Sun and the Moon) to give light upon the earth until the fourth "day", the same day he created the stars. Therefore, the first three "days" had no 24 hour clock as we know it (the Sun). Those "days" could have been any length of time - even millions or billions of years.

Therefore, it is easy to assume that a "day" with the Lord is not the same as a "day" with man. It is just as easy to assume that when, on the fifth "day", God said, "Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven . . . etc., that God could have taken millions of years for that event, also.

That said, assume that on the sixth "day", when he said, "Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind" . . . etc. , that event could have also taken millions of years.

Later on the sixth "day", God created Adam, the Son of God, in his likeness, along with his wife, Eve. Adam is referred to as the "Son of God" in the genealogy of Jesus in Luke, which ends with this passage: ". . . Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God." -- Luke 3:38

Now, that event (the creation of Adam) could have been instantaneous; and we all know that Adam had a son named Cain. Cain married a woman from the east of Eden (the land of Nod), and I assume she was not his sister. So it is possible there were other "men" and "women" on the earth at that time.

My conclusion? The other "men" (those from whom Cain's wife was born) evolved, either from the "waters" as many scientists believe (with the evolution beginning on the fifth day), or from the earth (on the sixth day). But God created Adam, the Son of God, directly, and in his own likeness. And from Adam came both Israel, and Jesus, our Lord and Savior. That is, there are two distinct sources of "mankind": the descendents of Adam and Eve who were created directly by God, and the descendents of man who evolved. This is easier to believe if you read this verse: "And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose." -- Genesis 6:1-2

And then there is this: "O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen" --1 Timothy 6:20-21

Finally, I bolded the above words "open firmament of heaven" for another purpose. I believe Heaven to be the earth's lower atmosphere -- the air we breath -- the air where the "fowls" fly (see Genesis 1:20) -- that which separates the waters above the heaven (the clouds) from the waters below the heaven (the lakes, rivers, and seas) (see Genesis 1:7).

And, of course, with God, all things are possible.

181 posted on 02/04/2003 5:59:29 AM PST by PhilipFreneau
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To: PhilipFreneau
Thank you oh so very much for your contribution to the thread! Hugs!!!
182 posted on 02/04/2003 7:16:14 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
'And the evening and the morning were the first day.'

In a nutshell, I understand those to be literal days, just like the days we have today. I have no problem acknowledging the fact that God created the universe, and as the master of such, can find no reason to need to resort to God taking billions of years to do what an omnipotent God could do in an instant. The pattern of evening and morning are there as precedent for us.

'And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good.'

If every thing God had created, including man, was good, that in and of itself shatters the myth that billions of years of evolution were necessary to get us to day 6 - implicit in the theory of evolution is the realiziation that what came before was imperfect, and denies the very existance of a Creator.

As a people, we craft answers to fit the apparent problem. Through the centuries, all of our scientific endeavors have us continually adjusting and refining our answers for those same problems. How can a photon travelling at the speed of light occupy the mass of the entire universe (relativistically)? The final scientific answers have not been discovered, nor will they ever. Even today, after millenia have passed, not a single person can create matter from nothingness, nor can any scientist explain how it could be done. The devil is the author of confusion, and his purpose is to lead us away from the truth.

I prefer to believe that God, in His infinite wisdom, created this universe in just a few days, that everything was good before death entered into the equation, and that He loved us enough to send His only Son to die in our place. We, who deserved nothing, were given everything.

183 posted on 02/14/2003 12:43:15 PM PST by 4CJ (Be nice to liberals, medicate them to the point of unconsciousness.)
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
Thank you so much for sharing your views!

On the subject of photons, mass and relativity, you might be interested in this article.

184 posted on 02/14/2003 1:08:22 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
I love physics - it's not my forte, but it is fascinating.
185 posted on 02/14/2003 2:02:33 PM PST by 4CJ (Be nice to liberals, medicate them to the point of unconsciousness.)
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
Thank you for reply! I enjoy physics, too.
186 posted on 02/14/2003 8:13:05 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
Here you are, o keeper of the treasures of things FReepish. I don't necessarily claim to adhere to all that the esteemed John Sailhammer purports, but I do think he's on to some things.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/894851/posts

or...

http://www.probe.org/docs/genesis.html

Genesis Unbound

187 posted on 04/16/2003 9:48:29 PM PDT by unspun (You see it's all clear. You were meant to be here, from the beginning....)
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To: Alamo-Girl
Very true, in my opinion, and based on my intuitive and logical experience. Thanks for writing it. Regards
188 posted on 04/16/2003 10:03:10 PM PDT by noname
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To: unspun
Thank you oh so very much for the url and for the encouragements! HUGS!!!
189 posted on 04/17/2003 11:03:01 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: noname
Thank you oh so very much for your endorsement! I'm thrilled that it comports with your views, intuition and logical experience. Hugs!!!
190 posted on 04/17/2003 11:04:58 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: unspun
Me neither. Personally, I'm more of a Monty Python fan.
191 posted on 04/19/2003 6:26:48 AM PDT by Devil_Anse
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To: Alamo-Girl
I don't think Adam existed before the physical creation because God sought out a companion for him. None of the other created life was found to be a suitable mate for him, so God took a bone from his side and created Eve. If Adam had an existence before his physical body, then Eve would have had one too. I am still puzzled over why this occured, since God knows the end from the beginning, but there is much which we are to take by faith.
The tongues which Paul referred to are the spiritual languages which poured forth on the day of Pentacost. This was a sign to the unbelievers in the same way that the unintelligent babble of the Babalonians was a sign to unrepentant Judah. Since they would not hear the prophets of God, God brought forth his will through those whom they could not understand. Since Israel rejected their Messiah, God reproduced an earlier sign by pouring forth tongues. However, there were faithful persons who heard the language being spoken as their own. Others who did not believe, thought that this display of God's power was only drunkeness. Paul made the distinction that tongues were not understood by the person speaking unless they were also interpreted by another who had the gift of interpretation. This shows that tongues are intelligible to God, angels and man, but that the person speaking the tongue may have no understanding of what is being spoken, and the person hearing the voice may not understand it either, for he is speaking mysteries. Most people speaking in tongues do not understand what they are saying, but it is a form of worship and giving of thanks. They are the right of every born again believer and are manifested in many churches today.
I appreciate the deep thought which you have given to this subject, but I'm not sure we can ever truly figure this all out. I have sometimes wondered if God created with age factored in to his creation. Adam was probably created in an adult form. What if all creation was produced with age already present in it's created form, hence, the chicken did come before the egg. Also God says " the evening and the morning" which in our understanding means one day, and the words are written so that we would understand them.
192 posted on 05/19/2003 9:17:43 AM PDT by man of Yosemite ("When a man decides to do something everyday, that's about when he stops doing it.")
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To: Alamo-Girl
I bow to your post.

BTTT

193 posted on 05/19/2003 9:34:47 AM PDT by bmwcyle (Semper Gumby - Always flexible)
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To: man of Yosemite
Thank you so very much for sharing your views and all the information on tongues! I am confident there is a reason all of this is not obvious to us in this life and very much look forward to learning more.
194 posted on 05/19/2003 10:32:37 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: bmwcyle
Thank you so very much for the kudos and encouragement! Hugs!!!
195 posted on 05/19/2003 10:34:00 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
Firm believer in special creation, the bible and a young earth here. :)
196 posted on 06/21/2003 9:23:15 PM PDT by goodseedhomeschool
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To: goodseedhomeschool
Thank you so much for sharing your view! Hugs!!!
197 posted on 06/21/2003 9:58:39 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Ahban

Hello Ahban

The text of Genesis has two simultaneous messages.
1- The theological message, the creation by God, to understand that everything is God’s work. In addition to the 7-day week and the day of rest, always in theological level.
2- A message, we could say tangential, and not primarily, in which, to show this vision of the evolution of the solar system this person (who may not understand what he saw there), God leaves to future generations with a sample of his glory.
This display of his glory is that only through a vision a man could access that information.
Information that only now, with modern knowledge, can understand.
The most interesting thing is that the vision can be paired with science only if the observer is located in the desert where they walked the Hebrews.
Other locations not allow comparison.
The margin of error is small enough for the observer’s location.
I have discussed with astronomers.
Besides the Genesis it gives a confirmation of a fact that had not been noticed before, and is the remaining dust.
The powder, which still floats after the generation of the planets and prevents the viewer to see the sun.
Also the fear that generates the “beast beast” (the Sea Monster), that monster has to have been the link between dinosaurs and whales.
In is location (very close) is Wadi Al-Hitan (Valley of the Whales), and would be too coincidental.

Moreover, it is important to understand that God has mechanisms for all. The fact that we see these mechanisms, makes the glory of God

I send the complete description of the theory for analysis such as you can see in my book The Observer (2010):

«In the beginning God created heaven and earth. Now the earth was a formless void, there was darkness over the deep, with a divine wind sweeping over the waters. God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that light was good, and God divided light from darkness. God called light “day”, and darkness he called “night”. Evening came and morning came: the first day. »(Genesis 1:1-5).

Let´s observe carefully what this first paragraph tells us.In this description, I clearly distinguish the original chaos nebula of cosmic dust that science mentions. A “sea” of dust, for someone who may be watching in in the darkness, and who does not have the slightest idea that what he is witnessing is not water but a nebula in which he (our possible observer) is “floating”. This individual is in the place, in the exact place, in which hundreds of millions of years later the Earth in formation will be located. Moreover, as he is not yet on solid ground all he can discern or understand, according to its parameters, is the abyss, the abyss of space.Then, this same individual (who continues his observation and narrates what he sees) perceives that the light shines for the first time and believes that God at that precise moment has created it -the light- as he still cannot see that it is the sun that originates the light. He sees the light, but not where it comes from. For him it is as if God had “switched on” the light.Then we face the first major dilemma typical of Genesis: how light can be created before the stars? (This obviously rhetorical question is usually accompanied by some skeptical gesture, knowing boastful look and intent to end the conversation).

Yes, it is true, it cannot be, but -there is always a but- what if we placed the viewer in the exact location where the primordial swirl was, the one which will lead to our
planet? It is obvious that our observer could have seen the light, but would have been unable to know where that light had come from, because -as noted earlier- the “dust storm” would have prevented it. Also, as he would be “standing” on the swirling, he would perceive the passage of day-night, light-darkness, due to its rotation. This person -because he´d be standing, situated, on the swirling- would turn with him, and therefore, a moment he would be facing the light, and the next, he would have his back to it.Here, we can already realize that it is essential, fundamental, the existence of an observer and -even more-its location, in order to understand the Genesis.This individual who notes, and then tells what he has seen, is watching it from a particular site, from a specific location. He is somewhere stationed at the time when he “watches”, at the time of receiving the vision, the revelation. And that place, that location where he is, is what makes the difference; that’s what makes us believe that the description of Genesis may make sense; it is the key to the riddle. The key that opens a world of possibilities
***
It is necessary to clarify that when I talk about an observer I mean someone who in recent times, say about three thousand years ago, receives a vision or a revelation of God and through it he watches the creation of the solar system.It doesn´t mean that the observer has witnessed the creation at the time God was doing it, but that he saw or grasped it later through some kind of extremely concise vision.
***
I believe that to many people Genesis never made sense. Or at least I think it did not make sense because most of those who analyze it consider that the information about Creation (Genesis) should have been given to the person who wrote the Bible in the format of a book of science, with scientific data, charts and graphs; or in the format of a detailed revelation, that would allow us to understand what happened from all angles. Specifically with this possibility: to see events from all angles.It is possible that the reason for this prejudice is that our scientistic mind expects scientific data to be accompanied by graphs, charts, statistics, and -of course- the correct format. However, if we look at how people who get visions or revelations of God “see” what He reveals, we´ll understand that these divine events never occur according to human parameters. Usually, these visions or revelations are just that, visions. Visions like very short films about which the viewer has no control. The visions are usually similar to a dream. Sometimes these visions are accompanied by an idea that becomes clear after ecstatic contemplation or, in some cases, there is someone who talks to the person who has the experience and explains something in particular that may -or may notbe related to what he has seen. Right.Let´s advance a little further with our approach and try to unravel this mystery.If this guy (our observer) had found himself floating in space above the solar system during its formation he would have “seen” that the star is born along with the light, but clearly that was not the case as he first sees light and much after the existence of the stars. So at this point I asked myself why? Why doesn´t he see? Why doesn´t he see something so obvious?Just because he can´t.It is certain, to me that its location -the site from where he observes- is not in space but in the accretion disk, at the level where the planets are created, and it is precisely for this reason that the stars are hidden behind the remaining dust. The key, the key to this mystery is the observer’s location, and that location has to be, without question, a point on the surface of the planet. Therefore, we will continue our comparison under the assumption that the observer is standing on what will eventually be the surface of our planet, Earth.

Notice what happens on the second day:
«God said,«”Let there be a vault through the middle of the waters to divide the waters in two”. And so it was: God made the vault, and it divided the waters under the vault from the waters above the vault. God called the vault “heaven”. Evening came and morning came: the second day.» (Genesis 1:6-8).

In this passage, our observer remains in the same place, the surface of the Earth (now already formed), and from there he tells what he “sees”, the vision that God has sent to him.To me it is obvious he is observing the cooling of the planet and, as a result, water condensation, the water that it is beginning to accumulate on the surface and the clear separation of the gases in the atmosphere that will form the sky, heaven. For him, before the separation of the waters, everything was mixed, hence the “separation”. But what is it that is mixed? Water and air (sky).Such is the existing steam and moisture, to which clouds are added -possibly volcanic clouds- that his feeling is that the sky is mixed with rain and seawater.For him this is very confusing. But as the Earth (the planet) gradually cools, the separation of the waters -we could say- is evident. Rain is rain, the land is land and the sea is the sea.Have I caught your attention yet? Have I? Not yet?Right.

Third day:
«God said,«“Let the waters under heaven come together into a single mass, and let dry land appear”. And so it was. God called the dry land “earth” and the mass of waters “seas”, and God saw that it was good.
«God said,«“Let the earth produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants, and fruit trees on earth, bearing fruit with their seed inside, each corresponding to its own species”. And so it was. The earth produced vegetation: the various kinds of seed-bearing plants and the fruit trees with seed inside, each corresponding to its own species. God saw that it was good. Evening came and morning came: the third day.» (Genesis 1:9-13).

Here comes, again, very briefly, what we had observed in our racconto about whatscience deduced on the evolution of the planet.We must not forget that our observer sees these events at a truly dizzying pace; that´s how it must have happened, since the planet´s six billion years -or at least four billion six hundred years- were summarized to him in seven days. Let´s analyze this third day.The water collects in a single ocean-sea and the land in a single mass.I am convinced that our observer is referring here to the supercontinent Pangaea Vaalbara.It’s too coincidental the observation the narrator makes on one land and one sea, almost too coincidental and unnecessary if it weren´t because that´s the way it really happened.But he could not see it (we’re talking about a super continent) therefore it must have been an idea that he saw in the vision. This makes its mention more interesting, almost remarkable.Then this guy (the observer) sees growing plants around him which he identifies with life forms known to him: trees, seeds, fruits, perhaps algae.

Fourth day:
«God said,«“Let there be lights in the vault of heaven to divide day from night, and let them indicate festivals, days and years. Let them be lights in the vault of heaven to shine on the earth”. And so it was. God made the two great lights: the greater light to govern the day, the smaller light to govern the night, and the stars. God set them in the vault of heaven to shine on the earth, to govern the day and the night and to divide light from darkness. God saw that it was good. Evening came and morning came: the fourth day.» (Genesis 1:14-19).

And now our observer -at last- can see a clear sky, free of clouds, moisture and gases, as well as of stardust -the remaining stardust that had disappeared from the surrounding space because it had been captured by the planets and swept by the solar wind.Finally, he sees the sun, the moon and the stars and, of course, he believes that God has created them right then.Obviously he is not aware that the stars already existed before but he had not spotted them yet. And why not? Why hadn´t he seen them? He had not noticed them because -as we had noted- the conditions of the atmosphere and outer space had not allowed him to. Remember the dust storm in space, and the torrential rains, the water steam and the volcanic gases in the planet’s atmosphere. But now, with a colder earth and growing vegetation, the air would be clean enough for the general appearance of the sky to be quite similar to the present, much like the sky we’re used to seeing. A clean sky, blue and clear.
Enough to observe the sun, the moon and the stars.Now with a more “normal” environment, we might say, our observer continues, standing in the same place, watching time pass before his eyes at a frightening pace.At the same time he tries to interpret, through self-referrals and the knowledge of the time in which he lives, events that he doesn´t understand. Facts that human kind would need -at least- two thousand, or three thousand years and hundreds of scientific discoveries to interpret.

Fifth day:
«God said,«“Let the waters be alive with a swarm of living creatures, and let birdswing their way above the earth across the vault of heaven”. And so it was.God created great sea-monsters and all the creatures that glide and teem in the waters in their own species, and winged birds in their own species. God saw that it was good. God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful, multiply, and fill the waters of the seas; and let the birds multiply on land”. Evening came and morning came: the fifth day.» (Genesis 1:20-23).

At this point, I must admit that the fact that in the story plants emerged first and marine animals later, generated some concern in me... it just did not make sense. The idea bothered me for days without being able to find an explanation that appeased me.In the end, as I could not realize the reason for this sequence, I went back to the central hypothesis -the location of the observer- and then I realized that maybe our observer was on a beach. It occurred to me that the same spot that concerned us so much, the exact location of the observer, must have been on a beach.This little detail made the difference, as a piece that falls into its proper place. If the observer was in a beach -then- it makes sense that he had been able to see first the plants-algae and then the sea life, the birds (perhaps flying dinosaurs), the great sea monsters (marine dinosaurs) and the other sea animals.With this new location of the observer -indeed by identifying its location- we could find this sequence more logical: plants-birds-sea animals (sea monsters).It is also possible that, between glaciations, the beach is completely flooded and that, perhaps, some of our observer´s vision were submerged, and hence the “bubbling waters for their species.”We should note that the continents drifted over the plates to their current locations, and that while they did it there were several glaciations. These glaciations retained liquid water on the ground as snow, ice, and the water flooded the coast at every opportunity. This to-and-fro of water occurred many times.The sea monstersAnd what about the land animals?We are getting there, let´s not rush.

Sixth day:
«God said,«“Let the earth produce every kind of living creature in its own species: cattle, creeping things and wild animals of all kinds”. And so it was. God made wild animals in their own species, and cattle in theirs, and every creature that crawls along the earth in its own species. God saw that it was good.
«God said,«“Let us make man in our own image, in the likeness of ourselves, and let them be masters of the fish of the sea, the birds of heaven, the cattle, all the wild animals and all the creatures that creep along the ground”. God created man in the image of himself, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them. God blessed them, saying to them, «“Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth and subdue it. Be masters of the fish of the sea, the birds of heaven and all the living creatures that move on earth”.
«God also said,«“Look, to you I give all the seed-bearing plants everywhere on the surface of the earth, and all the trees with seed-bearing fruit; this will be your food. And to all the wild animals, all the birds of heaven and all the living creatures that creep along the ground, I give all the foliage of the plants as their food”. And so it was. God saw all he had made, and indeed it was very good. Evening came and morning came: the sixth day.» (Genesis 1:24-31).

In this paragraph of the sixth day we find the emergence of land animals and then human beings. It’s very important, very important, that man is the last to appear, we already discussed why. The fact that it is the last is not a minor detail. Man could have appeared at the beginning of the story and it would have been more reasonable or consistent if we were to believe that the whole story was invented. It seems to me that someone who invents a story of creation normally begins with the most important character: the human being. However, in Genesis man, the center of creation, is the last to make his arrival.Perfect, so far just perfect.But ... again a but, why in the description land animals are mentioned after the plants, birds and the sea animals? Yes, why?This did not fit, there was something missing. I had overlooked some piece of this puzzle.I was again at a dead end. Some piece was missing again. I mulled it over for days, with no solution.(Some of you are probably now saying: “Did you see?”, but don´t go so fast, because this isn´t over yet).Finally I returned to the basis of my theory that focuses on the location of theobserver. I thought: let´s find the exact location.The key can be given to us by the individual who sees, by the observer.Who was this observer? Where did he live? What was he doing? What did he do for a living?As we have no reference about this individual, because the only thing we have is his story, we must deduce it.The Genesis is a narrative that is part of the texts, stories and traditions compiled by Moses, or at least that’s what the Bible scholars suppose. Following this logic we can deduce that if the text is part of the cultural heritage of the Hebrews, it is so because whoever wrote it or narrated it was a member of its people or at least someone very close to them. With this information we would be able to define a much more precise geographic location; the area would be confined to the region of Mesopotamia, between the Euphrates and Tigris. Our observer would very possibly be a shepherd.Well, well, well ... very well. At that moment something fell into the tangle of clues and pieces. I had the feeling, the certainty of having found something important. I thought: I must investigate that place, investigate Mesopotamia in the early days of Pangaea. I searched and searched in books and ... Bingo! Guess. Mesopotamia, or at least the territories that would one day become Mesopotamia, were a beach, a beach of Arabia. He was at the land mass that would drift with the other blocks and then end up “almost crashing” with Asia. The beach was there, the beach was the place from which our observer saw the sea monsters.While our block of Arabia drifts on the ocean, that small sector -that millions of years later would be Mesopotamia- is a beach, a long beach that stretches in front of the ocean. But beware, because it is not just any beach.

Before starting the drift -or we could say at the time it was still part of that one continent- that region is a small coastal edge of Pangaea. Then, after moving, it continues being a beach until it collides with Asia and it´s no longer a beach -at least in part- to become an inland region. But, and here’s another very interesting “but”, the field left inland is just the land which becomes Mesopotamia while the rest of the coast remains a beach, the Gulf Beach.Thus, we could explain why our observer saw first algae-plants, then sea animals -sea monsters and birds while Pangaea drifts- and finally land animals -without monsters (because there weren´t any dinosaurs any more)- and at the very end, men.I should make a small remark: in the narrative, referring to marine animals he speaks of “monsters”, but when he mentions land animals, he doesn´t. Why? Yeah, I wonder why some sea animals seemed monstrous but the land animals didn´t?Behold the key.Behold THE key.Let´s recall the timeline.If we consider that when this guy is watching the sea (while drifting on the block of Arabia) it is just the time of the dinosaurs, during which the beach may have also been submerged at some point; and that he then sees the mainland in the period when dinosaurs were extinct, the time sequence acquires a unique logic [8].What the viewer sees, facing the sea, at the time of the dinosaurs are sea dinosaurs, thus the “sea monsters” that he had never seen and would never see again. However, at the sight of land animals none of them catches his attention, despite the elephants, and giraffes, simply because for him they weren´t monsters. Animals were known to him.It is very interesting the fact that when Saudi “collides” with Asia dinosaurs were extinct. There were no monsters inland. Gone were “land monsters” that our observer could ever see.Think this guy was always “stuck” to the floor; he never turned, he never changed the direction of his gaze.While his vision lasted, at all times, he came across a display of events that happened before his eyes, as if he had been in front of a movie screen on which Creation was being projected. Or, as a cameraman filming with a fixed camera.He turned with the planet, moved with the ground and, of course, he was not able to fly. Which, though it might seem like a disadvantage, actually gives us the certainty that what he saw was absolutely real; a gift of God to a particular person, possibly for him to tell it what and thus reveal the mechanisms of God to create solar systems and planets like Earth.Pangaea and the continental driftThe arrow indicates the location of the observer

8 - The mass extinction of the Cretaceous-Tertiary was a period of mass extinction of species about 65 million years ago. It corresponds to the end of the Cretaceous period and the beginning of the Tertiary period. It is also known as mass extinction of K/T (German Kreide / Tertiär Grenze), to mark the boundary between the Cretaceous-Tertiary.No one knows the exact duration of this event. About 50% of biological gender disappeared, including most of the dinosaurs. Many explanations have been proposed for this phenomenon; the most widely accepted is that it was the result of an asteroid impact on Earth from space.

At this point I will tell you something very interesting.When this book was almost finished and we were doing the final corrections, in those days, I was watching television and going over some programs that I´d recorded.As I didn´t find any comedy -which is what I like to see after a day’s work- I checked the documentary programs recorded and randomly selected one on the Sahara Desert.Watching the documentary, to my surprise, I hear scientists talking about the enormous amount of sea fossils that formed the sands of the Sahara desert. They said that the Sahara had been a shallow sea beach, so much so that mangrove glowed (mangrove trees are very salt tolerant and their roots are immersed in sea water).The documentary referred to a particular area in Egypt called Wadi Al-Hitan, or Whale Valley due to the large number of fossils of whales and ancestors of these.They also commented that the stones used in the construction of the pyramids were crammed full with coastal marine fossils, i.e., shells, seashells, fossils and other more ancient like nummulites (”small coin”), extinct foraminifera that lived from between 55 and 39 million years to the present.At the end of the film -this documentary program- geologists concluded that all the top range of Africa had been partly submerged while continental drift occurred, and some sea-shore land had risen in times Africa is approaching Asia and block Arabia “collides” with Asia -(now Iran, Iraq, Turkey).Huge surprise.Huge and pleasant surprise.If we consider how close is the beach, or the key location where we assume that our observer was, from the area of this “valley of the whales” -less than 1,000 kilometers-, and we also consider the manifest existence of fossils that concludes that the area was submerged enough so that at certain times our individual could see the “famous” sea monsters, the theory at hand, our observer´s theory and its location make perfect sense.(I guess, at this point, I have got your attention and there are no sneers ...).And finally...At the end of the sixth day, man makes his appearance.

«“Let us make man in our own image, in the likeness of ourselves, and let them be masters of the fish of the sea, the birds of heaven, the cattle, all the wild animals and all the creatures that creep along the ground”. God created man in the image of himself, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them.» (Genesis 1:26-27).

Not in the first, nor the second, not even in the sixth. How can that be? How is it that man was created by God at the end and not the beginning? Come on; are we not the most important thing? We are the center of creation! Should He not have created us in the beginning? But he didn´t. He created us at the end. Completely the opposite of what would be expected of a creationist account.A perfect finale.In six billion years that the whole process of creation of the Solar System lasted, Homo sapiens appears at the end, in the last two million years.Precisely.At the end of the sixth day.
And now... the seventh day.

«Thus heaven and earth were completed with all their array. On theseventh day God had completed the work he had been doing. He rested onthe seventh day after all the work he had been doing. God blessed theseventh day and made it holy, because on that day he rested after all hiswork of creating.«Such was the story of heaven and earth as they were created.«At the time when Yahweh God made earth and heaven» (Genesis 2:1- 4).

This last day has something extra in addition to the day of rest, in which God sees his work; He decides it is already finished and there is a truce, and we read again that God made the earth and the heavens, neither more nor less. This repetition of the phrase -earth and heaven, already mentioned in the first dayis the key to unlocking the mystery.What about ...? We return to the LOCATION -yes, this time with capital letters- of our observer.If the story was made by God, it would make no sense the expression “earth and heaven” because God does not stand anywhere, God is omnipresent. If we speak of heaven and earth it´s because the observation is made from a purely human perspective, so the observer-narrator must be a man, a man, an individual, who as we saw, is standing on the earth’s crust, the planet’s surface, and from there he narrates.The land is all that is under his feet -the planet- and the sky is all that is on that world, and that means the atmosphere, space, stars, the rest of the universe and other universes -if there are any-; everything, absolutely everything, including the world of ideas and the laws governing the behavior of creation, such as the laws of physics, chemistry, etc., etc., etc.I would like to mention something to you now. One of my children, the youngest, aged nine, told me: “Why didn´t God do everything with magic? As He can do anything he wants just by clicking (thundering) his fingers.”Yes, I know, children´s questions...Yes, I thought, and why can´t Creation happen like that? Why doesn´t God do things by magic?And it occurred to me that maybe what happens is that we have become so accustomed to the magic of God, that it does not shock us anymore. It is possible that, as science has discovered some of the mechanisms of this Grand Wizard´s tricks and also the mechanisms that make these “tricks”, at one point we have come to think that anyone can do them.But clearly not everyone can create a solar system, not even in six billion years.Following these readings and reflections I was telling a friend about this idea of magic. I asked him: “Why do we assume that if God creates something he must do it with a magic wand? As if every morning he peeped a wand and a voice from heaven said, “Egg, chicken, egg, chicken ...” and eggs and chickens filled our farms.”God has mechanisms for all, and that’s what we see every day of our lives and we do not realize: how children are born, how trees grow, how the tides rise and fall, how we breathe, how rain is generated, how the stars move, and hundreds of billions of things more.And we are used to them. We got used to the way the world works around us; so much so that we are convinced that things have happened by chance, without any planning; that behind the Creation there isn´t a Creator; that our existence is pure chance. And that, I believe, is the reason that often arises for the division between science and religion.It would seem that what can be proven scientifically cannot be the work of God.As if man had created, on his own, any of the laws of physics.Newton discovered the laws that bear his name, discovered them ... not created them; there is a huge difference.

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198 posted on 07/14/2015 9:28:14 AM PDT by editoralbertocanen
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