Ontario must approve same-sex marriages, judge rules

The Globe and Mail (Canada) | 7/12/02 | ALLISON DUNFIELD

[jalisco555]

The Ontario Supreme Court said in a landmark decision Friday that same-sex marriages between couples must be registered by the provincial government.

A three-judge panel made the ruling Friday morning in the decision, expected to have ramifications across Canada.

In January, 2001, Rev. Brent Hawkes of the Metropolitan Community Church married two gay couples in front of an audience of 600 people.

However, the city refused to register the two marriages.

Friday's court ruling as a result of a challenge by the Metropolitan Community Church was joined with another constitutional challenge by eight gay couples who have been unable to obtain marriage licences despite going through religious marriage ceremonies.

The couples asked the court to find that governments' refusal to register their marriages violates several provisions of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, including equality rights, freedom of expression, freedom of conscience and religion and security of the person, defined as psychological well-being.

Gay couples say they desire to have their marriages made official by certificates.

"We're no longer second-class citizens in this country and the time has come for change. My relationship is validated and nobody can say we're not a real family any more," said Joe Varnell, who sued the provincial government for the right to marry another man after the decision.

As soon as the decision was released, Mr. Varnell and his partner, Kevin Bourassa, shared a celebratory kiss and cried tears of joy.

Mr. Hawkes is expected to speak to the decision around noon along with a number of gay and lesbian rights groups and his lead counsel.

[concerned about politics]

On the same token, can you prove that God is "hearing" you?

Why should he bother to hear us about sodomites? He's the one who condemened them to death a number of times. He doesn't like them either! He kills them off!

[planter]

As for the Rev. Hawkes, my understanding is that he's been in a committed relationship for something like 15 years and has made church a place of worship and support for many who felt they had nowhere to go but felt a strong need to stay close to the church. He was also a major player in the process of turning Toronto's Pride Week into a non-political and relatively tame outdoor street party

Brent Hawkes is an idiot and a hypocrite. He purports to stand for equal rights for all, yet he consistantly opposes the rights to freedom of expression and conscience for those who hold views different than his. His participation in the "Human Rights Tribunal" which ruled against ,and fined, a Saskatchewan man and a Newspaper for publishing an AD containing Old Testament scripture on homosexuality is perhaps the most recent example. He has stated that the Catholic Church and orthodox Jews are going to be punished by God for their views on homosexuality and he has called conservative christians satanic. There is a case ongoing in Ontario where an individual is fighting to defend his right not to print material that he finds to be offensive and to do so would be against his religious principles. He owns a printing company and the local Homo-fascists are trying to force him to publish "Gay-friendly" material. Want to bet on whose side Mr. Hawkes is on in that case?

[John O]

EWWWWWWWW. don't you feel somehow dirty after having to deal with them.

Those two are afflicted by choice with Same-sex Attraction Disorder and you are enabling them to remain sick rather than be healed. You should be ashamed of yourself. (I'm ashamed of you)

Any exposure of children to homsexual behavior is child abuse.

God Save America (Please)

[concerned about politics]

He has stated that the Catholic Church and orthodox Jews are going to be punished by God for their views on homosexuality and he has called conservative christians satanic.

"Holy" cow, this man hasn't even read the Bible at all!

[concerned about politics]

He doesn't like them either! He kills them off!

It appears that you're projecting your own prejudices on God. I don't think he would care for that very much either.

Ummmm.....Try Sodom and Gamorah, Romans 1 and think about the Aids plague today. God will not be mocked.

Revelation 22:15 -- "Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, ......."

[mitchbert]

I find those behaviors and the in-your-face-lets-brainwash-the-children examples as offensive as you. My only point is that the "appetite" for those sorts of things are by far not universal in the gay community. Not one gay man I know (single or otherwise) wants anything to do with adopting kids, and most are frankly put off by the "indoctrinaire" (sp?) approach taken by the more politically active types. Sadly, as with many groups, those that simply just want to live their lives and be left alone get tagged with the same labels as those who seem to have to define their exisistance by an element of their being as opposed to their accomplishments or good works.

Let me be clear. I find gays that stuff their lifestyle and bizarre behaviors in my (and society's) face repugnant and offensive. But for the record, I feel the same way about anyone who, for example, behaves as if their ethnic group/religion/whatever gives them some right to act holier than thou to the rest of society. And that goes as well for straight men (like the idiot sitting on the patio of my local pub last night) who couldn't let a woman walk by without describing in detail what he wanted to do to her. Idiots and self-important fools come in all shapes and sizes.

My central point surrounds the two gents in question because I know them. I would not be defending this position if it were a case I had no familiarity with as I could be defending actions that I would normally oppose.

Thanks.

[mitchbert]

Planter: I don't agree with Hawkes' left wing politics and frankly wish he would confine his activities to his church. I had forgotten some of the examples you cite and must agree that he, like may leftists, is not above speaking (preaching?) out of both sides of his mouth. His church has however been a place of comfort for many, especially during the height of the aids plague and I'll give him credit for that. Maybe I'm just too willing to look for good in folks, I don't know, but I can't let myself get caught in the single-minded vitrol I encounter so often on this subject.

Thanks.

[concerned about politics]

It appears that you're projecting your own prejudices on God. I don't think he would care for that very much either.

Revelation 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Romans 1:18-32:
For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

[mitchbert]

EWWWWWWWW. don't you feel somehow dirty after having to deal with them.

Honestly, no. If they keep their "business" their business and all involved are consenting adults and no one's getting hurt I say live and let live. Dishonesty, ignorance and mindless prejudice offends me a good deal more. I have no right to stick my face in their bedroom, as they have no right to stick theirs in mine (okay, my Canuck attitude coming through here).

Those two are afflicted by choice with Same-sex Attraction Disorder and you are enabling them to remain sick rather than be healed. You should be ashamed of yourself. (I'm ashamed of you)

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I truly think it's the way they're wired. As one gay gent I know said to me once "Why would anyone choose to be gay and deal with the ridicule, societal sanctions, etc." I can believe this. I know how awkward I felt as a teenager simply because I was so geeky I couldn't figure out how to get girls. I can't imagine the confusion and fear a teen must feel knowing he's somehow "different" and can't discuss it with parents, friends, etc (this chap is about 50 so when he was growing up things were very different than today).

Any exposure of children to homsexual behavior is child abuse.</>

Heartily agree. The forced feeding of the gay agenda in schools, particularly at the elementary level, disgusts me. Teaching values is the job of the parents. Actually I believe that stuffing this "curriculum" down kids' throats may feed prejuduce rather than prevent it.

God Save America

And keep her strong and free.

[mitchbert]

I've just heard that the Government of Ontario has put a "stay" (?) on the decision (not sure of the correct term) for at least two years, while they work on legislation to deal with this

Interesting. Hadn't heard that yet, but then during the day I tend to get all my news from FR!

Actually, I seem to remember that originally when this came up (after they tried to register the marriage) that the ON government's response was that they're hands were tied as the marriage laws were in federal jurisdiction. They merely registered the event. Maybe something's changed or the original reports were incorrect?

BTW, I agree with your "bigger issues" point. Up here we're more concerned right now with getting the bloody garbage off the streets following a two week long city services strike.

Cheers!

[concerned about politics]

"Why would anyone choose to be gay and deal with the ridicule, societal sanctions, etc."

It's a great way to get the attention their crossed wires crave. Negative attention is better than no attention at all.
They need psycholigical attention to cure them of this fetish.

[concerned about politics]

I've just heard that the Government of Ontario has put a "stay" (?) on the decision (not sure of the correct term) for at least two years, while they work on legislation to deal with this

Gotta get their fingers wet to see which way the wind is blowing. OK Canadian heterosexuals, start turning on those fans! LOL

[mitchbert]

Like I said, we're going to have to agree to disagree. I'm sure your beliefs are truths to you as mine are to me. As long as we're good to our neighbors and pay more than passing attention to the 10 Commandments we shouldn't upset society too much :0)

Hope you have a nice weekend wherever you are.

[concerned about politics]

As long as we're good to our neighbors and pay more than passing attention to the 10 Commandments we shouldn't upset society too much :0)

The whole Bible counts for us. Ignoring the teachings is what leads to the liberal anti-Christ and the end times. There is no time limit, so what ever we can do to hold it off, the better.

[mitchbert]

Gotta get their fingers wet to see which way the wind is blowing. OK Canadian heterosexuals, start turning on those fans! LOL

Sorry, it seems we were simultaneously posting to each other!

You know, I'm thinking about this and I can't really say which way that wind will blow. Believe it or not in Ontario at least this hasn't been a real show stopper of an issue for many folks. The only time people seem to get their backs up a bit is when you throw the whole adoption card into the deck. For the record I'm uncomfortable with it too, but then my gay friends' answer to "do you want kids" is always "What? Are you nuts? We're gay men!" I sense this is more of an issue in the lesbian community than for men.

This (adoption) will likely be the deal breaker for a lot of people. I don't sense a lot of people up here have too much of an issue with marriage but dealing with the adoption issue will be very difficult. Should be interesting. I just don't know how the lawmakers will square that circle.

[concerned about politics]

Are you a prisoner of your own depraved thoughts about what people choose to do behind closed doors?

If it were behind closed doors, we wouldn't be here today.
Sodomites are the small minority. That makes them the societies depraved, the rest are the norm.