[Austin, TX] Church leaders accused in beating -- Boy in intensive care with kidney failure

The Houston Chronicle ^ | July 9, 2002 | Armando Villafranca

[Bandolier]

My reply was written based on the statement in the article. There is always the possibility that there was some lying going on. No matter who is found to be the culprit in this case needs to be dealt with harshly. If it was stepdad; real dad needs to make a visit with some Easton Aluminum.

[Pete]

Your post displays a misuse of statistics which is, at best, ignorant. Are you sufficiently educated in that discipline to understand how, or shall I spell it out for you? (I realise that you didn't write it.)

Well, first of all, I am an actuary - so, yeah, I guess you could say I was "sufficiently educated in the discipline."

Secondly, if you are referring to the author's extrapolation to 2041, I would agree that such use of statistics is not valid. However, I believe you are focusing on the part that is less meaningful to the discussion in this thread. The current statistics the author provides refute the claim that the number of evangelical Christians is decreasing.

[laotzu]

"Your source for that statement?....Non sequitur. Please check your prejudices at the door."

Incidents such as this, and many others, have put me off the evangelical movement. I have a personal relationship with God, and do not want the guiding hand of interference(beating) sheparding me towards the light.

You now have a source for those sensitive to having their toes stepped on. It is wise to be discriminating (or prejudice...a little sheep lingo there)

[MissAmericanPie]

I suppose these two thugs missed this verse.

Mark 9:42 "And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea."

These two do not have a bright future, here or anywhere else.

[Pete]

What kind of crap is that? As somebody categorized as "other Christian" in that fine statistical work, I've never denied that people who belonged to the worldwide body of Christ were Christian. I sooooo very glad that y'all have such an exclusive outlook.

I am not the author of the piece - I merely quote it as my link to the Source indicates.

Also, I do not see the source of your consternation. Maybe I missed it, but I don't see where the author denies the Christianity of other believers.

[Minnesoootan]

Not accusing,speculating,there is a big difference. I "accused" the step father to show Illbay there are two possible sides to the story,if one reads without blinders on.

One key thing that bothers me,I don't see any qoutes from the kid....maybe it was a school yard beating,and he needs to cover up that to remove the risk of future beetings?

I'll wait for the evidence to come in before "judging".

[ArrogantBustard]

I'm referring to his citing of growth rates for various religious populations without also citing the actual size of those populations. The size of the worldwide Catholic population, for example is vastly larger than the size of the worldwide Evangelical population. A small population can much more easily show a large growth rate than a large population. And the extrapolation to the year 2041 is silly. What happens in 2042, do the Martians start becoming evangelicals?

The first part, showing the growth both in raw numbers and rates of the evangelical population is fine, and I agree that is the most important part, for this thread.

[ksen]

At least five years in prison sounds about right.

And a notice posted on their cell door informing the rest of the inmates as to the particulars of their crime. It is a pity that so many times we must rely on prisoners to exact the punishment the State should be meting out.

[ksen]

If this kid dies ,IMHO it is capitol murder .....yes/no ?

Yes.

[Pete]

And so as an actuary, you agree with his categories listing everyone but self described evangelicals, pentecostals and charismatics as "less than Christian"?

You put "less than Christian" in quotes - does that appear somewhere in the story? After your strong response, I went back to try to find the source of your anger. It may be that in the first chart, the author uses the label "Christians" over what appear to be the Evangelical statistics. It is my feeling that this may simply be a poor choice of titling rather than evidence of any bias the author may have. I did not get the impression that he was saying that only Evengelicals are truly Christian.

But even if he was (which I would personally disagree with) the main point of my posting this is to show the growth rate of evangelical Christianity to refute the claim that the numbers are decreasing. That is the context into which I posted this to the thread - rather than some sort of statement on who is truly Christian.

Or how you can extrapolate increasing numbers in faiths - including nonchristian ones - as somehow leading to "everyone" being Christian by 2041?

I have to believe that the author is being facetious when he makes reference to 2041. It might also simply be a mechanism to illustrate the speed of the current growth rate.

[strela]

The difference here is that the vast majority of Christians view this act as an atrocity, and want the perpetrators punished.

Apparently the good Christians in the sect this thug "minister" belongs to don't seem to be at all bothered by this brutal assault. Nothing I've read to date indicates that they've helped the police bring these criminals to justice in any way or even told the authorities where they can be found. Surely the sheep know where the shepherd spends his days?

The Islamic world, by and large, has institutionalized this sort of barbaric behaviour.

And you know this how? Just like Christianity, there are so many sects and offshoots of Islam, there is no such thing as one voice who speaks authoritatively for the entire religion. Don't mistake simple jealousy by poor people against the rich for some sort of Islam-wide "conspiracy" to hate Americans.

[OBAFGKM]

"Well, first of all, I am an actuary - so, yeah, I guess you could say I was 'sufficiently educated in the discipline.'"

Sorry, Pete. AB's got a point. If the statistics comparing "most important religious groups" are correct, then there must be at least 4.7 times as many Catholics in the world as there are Protestants. But it's impossible to make that consistent with the claimed Christian growth rate since 1970. You're the actuary -- work it out for yourself.

Frankly, the statistics are likely constructed of whole cloth.

[goodieD]

There are evil, abusive people in every type of faith and non-faith as well. This is a tragic story, and the beaters should be taken out and flogged or worse, but for Illbay and his ilk to use this as an excuse for Christian bashing is vile.

[Taliesan]

And don't tell me this was an "isolated incident." It was a "hate crime."

An isolated hate crime.

[strela]

for Illbay and his ilk to use this as an excuse for Christian bashing is vile.

I guess I'm of that "ilk" then. And, the next time somebody bashes Islam (or Buddhism or any other non-Christian religion) for the actions of a tiny minority of its followers, I expect to see you letting them have it with both barrels.

[Taliesan]

the main point of my posting this is to show the growth rate of evangelical Christianity to refute the claim that the numbers are decreasing.

I picked up on the main point and I'm not even an actuary.

[goodieD]

unfortunately, the muslims who want non-muslims dead are not a "tiny majority". And Buddhism is not a violent religion, so there goes your little theory.

[Dakmar]

And you know this how?

I can read. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't read about the crap that goes on in the Muslim world - cutting off hands for theft, punishing women for being raped, forcing little schoolgirls back into burning buildings because they are not properly covered to go outside...

Don't mistake simple jealousy by poor people against the rich for some sort of Islam-wide "conspiracy" to hate Americans.

Osama bin Laden is poor? The Saudi royal family is poor? Saddam Hussein is poor?