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Socialist Professor Responds
7/8/02
| commieprof
Posted on 07/08/2002 4:52:12 PM PDT by commieprof
An open letter to my critics:
Let me please take this opportunity to thank you for your feedback and to clarify a few points that seem to be at issue. Thank you to those who have sent messages of support, and to those of you whose criticisms are based in argument and reasoning, rathern than in name calling and death threats. Thank you to those of you who noticed that I took care in my pledge not to identify with terrorists, suicide bombers, or Islamic regimes, but with the ordinary people around the world, including those here in the United States. And thank you, I guess, to those of you who are praying for my salvation. I tend to see a better world as being possible here on earth and am not waiting for the second coming so that the meek can inherit their due. But at least you aren't threatening my life, and I appreciate that.
To those of you who are sending me hate mail equating me with the enemy, however, let me attempt to make the following clarifications. It is true that the format of a pledge does not allow one to present arguments full-blown. People may have misunderstood my meaning and intent because of the brief and condensed nature of the genre.
I take my freedoms to dissent in this country very seriously. I do not want to live anywhere else in the world, your invitations to exile notwithstanding. I am a citizen with the right to protest what I see as unjust and inhumane policies, both economic and military. You are correct that I am relatively privileged; I would not have the same rights to dissent and protest in countries like Afghanistan, although if I lived there, I would be part of social movements to resist oppression whether in the form of Islamic fundamentalism or U.S. bombs. Activists in the countries I named often stress the importance of critique and dissent here in the belly of the beast. I feel a certain obligation, an obligation that comes with freedom, to speak out alongside of those with less freedom to speak. I pledged solidarity not with any nation's leaders or terrorist organizations, but with the ordinary people, who are not being liberated by U.S. sanctions and bombs or by U.S. support for the Israeli occupation. I see the people in Afghanistan who were bombed as they celebrated a wedding two weeks ago as being as human as those who died in the World Trade Center, for whom I also have tremendous compassion.
I should add that people in developing countries are not being liberated by the opportunites provided by U.S.-dominated world capitalism. I do not have space to go through all the evidence for these claims, but if you have an open mind, I suggest you read some Howard Zinn, especially People's History of the United States and his more recent Terrorism and War. Suffice it to say that if you have read any history you know that the U.S. either put in place or supported with money and guns the very dictators you decry today, including the Taliban and Saddam Hussein. The United States has taken part in the undermining of democratic (defined as supported by the majority of the people, not in terms of the free market) regimes in Latin American and the Carribean almost as a matter of course (Chile, Haiti and the Philippines for example), not to mention in Asia and Africa. The list is too long to recite here.
Those of you who are offended that you might have to fight and die for my freedoms clearly have misunderstood my anti-war stance. I do not want you to be sent to other countries to die or kill, because I think those actions are not in defense of our freedoms; more often it's about protecting oil profits (even Bush Sr. admitted as much about the Persian Gulf War, which resulted in more than a million and a half civilian deaths). I don't want you over there killing civilians in my name, when my freedoms are not what is being defended at all. Neither are yours. Even though you may hate me, I don't want to you die for someone else's profits.
I do not agree with the analysis that "our way of life" offers hope and salvation to those living in other countries under dictators and in poverty. When four percent of the world's population controls more than 60% of the world's wealth, when the nation states that harbor the strongest enterprises defend those interests with force, when U.S. foreign policy and economic policy are designed to drive countries into unsalvageable debt or rubble, it is impossible for me to remain uncritical. Too often, it is not the fault of bad leaders, bad values, wrong religion, or corrupt people in other nations that brings them ruin, but the policies of production for export over meeting human needs, the support of the U.S. for dictators like the former Suharto in Indonesia, who massacred more than 200,000 people but was, according to the state department, "our kind of guy" because he supported Nike and Freeport MacMoran's exploitation of the people there. I could go on. When Madeline Albright said that the deaths of 5,000 children a month in Iraq as a result of U.S. sanctions were a reasonable price to pay for U.S. foreign policy objectives, I reacted with the same level of disgust that you are bombarding me with now.
I think we have to face these hard realities about "our way of life" if we are truly to understand "why they hate us" and to prevent acts of desperation and hatred targeting civilians in the future. I am not defending terrorism (which, if defined as the targeting of civilian life in retaliation for political and economic grievances, would apply to U.S. conduct in every war it has fought). But it seems reasonable to consider that "they" (Iraqis, Palestinians, Muslims in general) might hate the United States for the havoc it has wrought in the Middle East. Some examples: First supporting and arming Hussein when he was fighting our enemies and killing the Kurds, then slaughtering Iraq's civilian population and bombing the country back to the stone age. First supporting and arming Islamic fundamentalists in Afghanistan when they were fighting "the communist menace," then bombing their civilian population. . . You get the idea. The support for Israel and its wars and occupations against Palestinians against United Nations resolutions and international law doesn't win our government any friends, either. It is always wrong to terrorize civilians in response to such abuses. Yet the history is part of the answer to the question and a change in U.S. foreign policy must be part of the solution.
If you cherish the freedoms of the United States, it would be hypocritical of you to be intolerant of the expression of opinions that differ from yours. I am a well-educated, thoughtful human being. I am well qualified to teach at the University ("universe"-ity), which should be a place for thoughtful and respectful sharing of diverse views. My students get trained in critical thinking: the capacity to take in a number of perspectives and weigh evidence and reasoning on their own, which they would not be able to do if there were not at least a few dissenters among us here. I mean, the business school gets the big bucks and military- and corporate-funded research dominate the campus. It's a rare class where a student would find points of view that challenge the corporate and geopolitical hegemony of the United States. So I feel sorry for the students whose parents would keep them from attending my classes or the University of Texas because of what I wrote. Don't you have faith that your children can think for themselves? Don't you trust them with a range of positions and approaches to knowledge? Haven't you prepared them to defend your family's values? Any viewpoint is welcome in my classes so long as the arguer can provide evidence and reasoning in support of claims. Contrary to popular mythology, I do not routinely fail conservative students; I do welcome their voices in class so long as respect for others and standards of argumentation are sustained. Actually, the smarter conservative students tell me that they enjoy a good challenge, which they take as a sign of respect. And believe me, I am a member of a tiny political minority on campus that is nowhere near acting like the "thought police" envisioned by the hard right. The kind of fear I hear in the emails I am receiving and on the conservative listservs I have been monitoring is based on a complete overestimation of any single professor's influence.
In sum, I am not the enemy of freedom; to the contrary, I am among its staunchest supporters. I think freedoms should be expanded, not curtailed, in this time of crisis. I worry that now with the modified Patriot Act (which allows security agencies to perform warrantless searches, detentions, and wiretaps, among other things) and the new mega- security-intelligence agency consolidation, that we may not have these freedoms to dissent very much longer. I will raise questions about U.S. foreign policy and corporate globalization as long as I can. It is my prerogative, my right, and, as I see it, my responsbility.
A brief comment on patriotism, or nationalism: To me it seems untenable to say that I have more in common with George W. Bush, Martha Stewart, or Kenneth Lay than I do, say, with a teacher in Afghanistan or a student in Iraq or a UPS driver here at home. Likewise, they might share interests with me and have little in common with Saddam Hussein or Al Quaeda. As a socialist (not a Stalinist, and there is a difference), I have a positive vision of international solidarity and struggle against greed, war, exploitation, and oppression on a world scale. In my view, patriotic fervor dehumanizes people around the world so that their deaths or their hunger or their homelessness can be blamed on them and forgotten.
It's not like me to base an argument on the words of the "founding fathers" but let me remind you that it was Thomas Jefferson (leaving aside his fondness for slaves for a moment) who believed that criticism and dissent were at the core of democracy. He even thought that the citizenry should take up arms against a government when they thought it was becoming too tyrannical. It took a revolution to make the democracy you cherish, and in my view it will take another to make real democracy (political and economic) for the majority of the world's population.
Ben Franklin wrote that when a nation prioritizes security over liberty, the consequences could be dire for democracy. Contrary to my correspondents, I do not believe that order is the ground from which all liberty springs. History teaches quite another lesson--it took a civil war, for example, to end slavery. And "order" is a god term not of democratic societies but of fascism. Unfortunately, I believe that in this extremely sensitive time people are all too willing to embrace a notion of security--not only against terrorists but also against critical ideas and thoughtful dialogue--over liberty.
I hope that this set of expanded arguments makes for more thinking and fewer personal attacks. Of course, I hoped to provoke a response and I welcome deba†e and dialogue. I do not feel like a victim and I am not complaining about being criticized. However, I hoped to get a *real* response, not just hate and intimidation in the name of freedom.
I encourage activists with views similar to mine to come out into the light of day. The urgency of speaking now far outweighs the flak we will get for standing up.
With best regards,
Dana Cloud
TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: fascism; liberty; opuslist; patriotism; pledge; religion; socialism; theflag
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To: dennisw
101
posted on
07/08/2002 6:25:29 PM PDT
by
dennisw
To: marron
It is significant that they left the fields to work in those factories... Actually, many of them came from overseas in the expectation that conditions in America would be better than those they left. Such expectations may or may not have been accurate, and I would not be surprised if factory owners encouraged the spreading of pro-American propaganda overseas.
Nonetheless, whether or not the workers improved their own lot compared with the land they left, and whether or not the promises to them were fulfilled, the fact remains that they almost certainly improved the lot of their decendants far beyond what they could have done at home. And since that, more than self-gratification, was the real goal of many of these people, I think it fair to say they achieved it in spades.
To: dennisw
I wonder if she's on the editorial board of
Social Text, that phony journal with the same agenda as "Professor" Cloud. You remember, the one that published a fake parody article thinking it was the real thing?
Alan Sokal's article in Social Text
To: SnuffaBolshevik
Well.. is this Pinko Bimbette going to respond I'm convinced this is a planned out piece of of research for the "Doc." To be titled "A Marxist Critique to Free Thinking Rational Thought."
104
posted on
07/08/2002 6:26:52 PM PDT
by
Fzob
To: Inkie
ROTFLMAO!!!!
To: commieprof
Have you read
The Road To Serfdom? I heartily recommend it to everyone, but especially to those who, despite the record of the 20th century, still think that personal liberty and socialism are compatible.
To: dennisw
107
posted on
07/08/2002 6:29:26 PM PDT
by
dennisw
To: commieprof
A brief comment on patriotism, or nationalism:Dana,
You seem a bit confused for a college professor from a "universe-ity"
You don't know there is a difference between patriotism and nationalism?
Marx would be very proud of your writing skills in promoting this claptrap
Err. I mean propaganda.
108
posted on
07/08/2002 6:29:46 PM PDT
by
JZoback
To: commieprof
To: commieprof
Amusing how much of your "dissent" consists of repeated discredited hoaxes and lies.
To: Benrand
I received A's in every single Liberal Arts class that I took at U.T. I had a good strategy going: I would write my papers as far to the left as I possible could. My senior year I coudn't take it anymore and wrote that "religion can help people understand morality" and received the lowest grade in the class. I barely passed the class! I started being left-wing with the remaining papers and was able to receive a C.
To: general_re
BET is incredibly depressing to watch. There are jokes on their "humor" shows that are SO racist as well as stupid, it defies the question why that is on the TV...I'd LIKE to see some scholarship, honest scholarship, on why this *is*.
But, as everyone with a brain knows, that wouldn't get anybody hired, only fired.
112
posted on
07/08/2002 6:32:55 PM PDT
by
Benrand
To: commieprof
People may have misunderstood my meaning and intent because of the brief and condensed nature of the genre.I read that thing. It was neither brief, nor condensed.
To: SnuffaBolshevik
She might come back, but it's not likely. Posters like these don't stick around, even if they don't get banned. They just toss out a missive and jet and chalk it up as another victory for the people.
I live in San Francisco and see these people all the time, and I mean ALL THE TIME: Carbon copies of one another. Same hairstyle, same pudgy body covered by a pullover sweatshirt. Same issues. Opinions on everything. Always quoting other people's works. No original thoughts. They might not all have a CV like Professor Cloud's, but not every perpetual student gets to stay in college their whole life.
Some of these people eventually mellow out and start to enjoy life, but it's rare. People like Dr. Cloud are the type of person that could be surrounded by people and still feel lonely inside their head.
All you'd have to do is simply mention that her local ASPCA gassed another 125 unwanted puppies and kittens today and that'd be all she can think about for the rest of the evening.
It's a mental disorder. We'll identify it as a form of Austism some day, I think.
To: general_re
This fraudulent nonsense in #64 reminds me of the article earlier this week about all the intellectual imposters in the social sciences:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/712100/posts.
I know you contributed to that thread, GR, but thought others who didn't see it might want to check it out for comparison. With any luck, our universities will be forced to drop these empty-headed "disciplines," such as those our good professor specializes in, from their curricula by the time we've won the war on terror, and she can go back to waiting tables where she belongs.
To: Antoninus
I wonder if she's on the editorial board of Social Text, that phony journal with the same agenda as "Professor" Cloud. You remember, the one that published a fake parody article thinking it was the real thing?My guess is she doesn't have the brains, which I'm sure she'll somehow blame on "the patriarchy". But she is a deconstructionist type and "Social Text" is a journal of deconstructionist thought AKA critical theory. These phony baloneys conduct their feminist and "anti-racism" revolutions in our universities while they sponge off the taxpayers. PARASITES!!! WELFARE BUMS!!
116
posted on
07/08/2002 6:38:31 PM PDT
by
dennisw
To: commieprof
I should add that people in developing countries are not being liberated by the opportunites provided by U.S.-dominated world capitalism. Hmm, tell that to the Japanese, the Koreans, the Taiwanese, those in Hong Kong (at least before the ChiComs took over), in Singapore and many other formerly developing places. Certainly Communism never "liberated" anyone, neither in it's Russian nor it's Chinese forms. It has killed millions though.
117
posted on
07/08/2002 6:38:57 PM PDT
by
El Gato
To: Texas_Longhorn
I wrote a paper in a proto-Marxian, very convoluted, dissolute way, and the guy gave me a low grade. After saying content would be the only standard, he graded on style. He gave up after a couple of pages. I participated in every discussion, did all the work, showed up when he decided not to let anybody know he was blowing the class off, got 4.0s on projects and got a 2.0.
I'm not exactly sure what I did wrong, other than say what I think, and try to get discussions going when no one else would by fleshing out ideas.
I guess I wasn't toady enough.
I mean, that guy was SUCH a moron. It was amazing. He BARELY had a class plan. Seriously, the guy was so disorganized and emotional...the worst teacher I ever had.
118
posted on
07/08/2002 6:40:58 PM PDT
by
Benrand
To: Senator Pardek
Thank you. The third most important resource needed to keep this nation running, after water and air, is oil.You must be slipping in your old age.
You can't eat oil, unless of course you've figured out some way to digest 5W-30. After air, water and food, human capital is what makes this country run, just like it did for 100 years prior to Rockefeller.
The only reason that we are addicted to oil, is because we are made to be. The oil cartel is no different that a drug pusher, just at a different level on the economic ladder.
---max
119
posted on
07/08/2002 6:41:44 PM PDT
by
max61
To: Dog Gone; Lazamataz; technochick99
Oh Laz, the humanity...
ROTFLMAO...
120
posted on
07/08/2002 6:42:33 PM PDT
by
Abundy
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