FR EXCLUSIVE: Gov. Jeb Bush answers the question -- "Do FL voucher students take state tests?"

Email from Gov Bush to summer | July 8, 2002 | Jeb Bush; summer

[summer]

Thanks, Gov. Bush.

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-----Original Message-----
From: Jeb Bush
To: [summer]
Date: Monday, July 08, 2002 2:45 PM
Subject: RE: quick question

Opportunity scholarship students must take the FCAT grades 3-10. The information on the test goes only to the parent and is not published. Private schools are not graded. The majority of students in private school are using the McKay scholarship. They don't have to take the test. The corporate tax credit students don't have to take the test either.

Jeb Bush

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-----Original Message-----
From: [summer]
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 2:18 PM
To: Jeb Bush
Subject: quick question

Vouchers and Government Control

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Gov. Bush,

A certain voucher question comes up repeatedly on FR.

I tried to answer it to the best of my knowledge on my post #40 on the thread above. Was I correct?

Briefly -- FR posters against vouchers keep claiming the FL voucher students are currently "required" to take all state assessments. But, I say, NO.

Who is correct?

Thanks,
[summer]

[grania]

I think the better schools have little reason to complain. Their students will do fine. It is not the big deal some people make it out to be.

I'm a Math teacher at a for-profit learning center, and have the opportunity to work with students of all ages and all levels of ability and achievement. For students (and teachers) who are not up to grade level, the tests have been good. They have forced the schools to teach an adequate curriculum to all students and not assume that there are students who cannot achieve at grade level.

One problem I encounter is at the other end of the spectrum...bright students with good grades who have huge holes in their backgrounds because topics that wouldn't be on the test were left out at various grade levels. These students will often say it was a waste of time for them to have life, and learning, stop for these tests. Another problem is the creative aspect of things...teachers have actually become less innovative and creative, and more test-driven.

My preference would be a curriculum-based approach. I wouldn't even mind a subject split into ten broad topics, one for each month of the year, and leave some space within that framework for individual approaches. This would take care of everyone having access to topics and would probably prepare students very well for the test, and keep the test on-task. My experience is that students who come from schools who teach a traditional curriculum to everyone, and complete it, do just fine.

[grania]

The way I see it, it puts competition into the system. To be honest, I'd like to see private schools adopt a voluntary testing system this way I can choose to send my children to the school of my choose based on ALL the information available

I think that it is possible to tell how the private schools are doing, and what are their strengths and weaknesses, by looking at their curriculum, their faculty, and the outcomes with their students. Take a walk through the school, have your child spend a day in classes, ask what students did after graduation. And, ask the students who are there...they know better than anyone else what is going on.

As far as your children are concerned, there probably exists some diagnostic testing in each subject already on their records. But, I do agree with you, that with private schools you do have to shop around...what's good for one student might be just awful for another!

[cake_crumb]

Great info. I didn't understand the Florida voucher program HALF as much as I thought I did...and I thought I only understood half of it to begin with!

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Ping for plain-speaking and clarification....down with Barbra Streisand. (^:

[not-alone]

Thanks again summer, you keep giving us great info, I passed the information on the job programs to some friends today and will tell others about these vouchers.

[surely_you_jest]

Thanks for the ping.

[folklore]

I have never posted on one of your threads,although I have read alot of them. You have demonstrated to all freepers, that statements such as I may be wrong, I am not sure I am right, and I will will do more checking just to make sure, are on all our keyboards. You are gem.

[folklore]

a gem, a gem. I will write that 50 times after school.

[summer]

LOL...mafree, to this day I have never met Gov. Bush nor spoken with him. But, I do think you should come to FL someday and speak to these black FL voters.

Maybe you should write to his campaign people and let them know you exist! www.jeb.org

He does have some black support in FL, and I actually think that will increase in this election. But, I still think you should maybe write to his campaign and tell them about yourself -- including your past political affiliations and your time spent mentoring students. :)!

[summer]

Re your post #61 - I think your solution is a terrific one. Many teachers try to do that now, but they are not always successful.

And, I am likewise very sympathetic to those same students -- the ones on the OTHER end of the spectrum, who of course will do fine on the test, and could go on to so much more.

But, I disagree that a creative teacher has to stop being creative due to an upcoming test. I do think the testing has caused changes. However, I still see lots of room for creativity in teaching. This is a big concern of mine, BTW. So, I am not brushing aside your commentary here. As time goes on and people become more comfortable and familiar with these tests, I think attitudes will continue to improve in this area.

One improvement I believe may already be happening now is that learning objectives at each grade level are becoming much clearer -- so that students at one grade level are not repeating over and over some of the same lessons already learned at a previous grade level.

Thanks for your thoughtful post here. :)

[summer]

grania, I believe you make good points in what you said to for-q-clinton, but I agree with that poster. Speaking as a consumer, such info would be of great interest to me as well.

[summer]

Great info. I didn't understand the Florida voucher program HALF as much as I thought I did...and I thought I only understood half of it to begin with!

Thanks, cake_crumb. But, here's a secret -- back then, and even now, you understood the FL voucher system better than most FL journalists! Seriously! LOL... :)

[summer]

Re your post #64- ROTFLMAO! BTTT to you, RC! :)

[summer]

Thanks again summer, you keep giving us great info, I passed the information on the job programs to some friends today and will tell others about these vouchers.

Thanks for letting me know that, not-alone. BTW, you -- and others like you -- are the reason I consider it worthwhile to post this info. Truly. :)!

[summer]

My pleasure. Thanks for your post #66. :)

[Truth Addict]

I appreciate the ping, as usual, summer.

I am grateful that here in Florida, we have a governor that takes the time to answer emails from his citizens. It says a lot about Jeb that he answered your question concisely and factually, without adding the usual politician's spin.

On this issue of testing, I have found standardized tests to be a valuable tool in evaluating my children's' progress, and they can be used very effectively in assessing the performance of the schools as well. My children have, at various times, been homeschooled, in private schools, and public schools, and they took standardized tests in all of those different situations. Private schools may not be required to administer these tests, but many do, and I highly recommend it. I would not consider sending my child to a school that did not.

I would actually not object to schools that receive voucher money being required to administer the FCAT to those students, since I have found it to be a very good test. This would impose no burden on the private school with regard to the content of their curriculum, except to encourage them to concentrate on the basic skills that are being tested for. I do not consider this to be an intrusion on the school's freedom to teach as they see fit.

[summer]

Re your post #67 -- statements such as I may be wrong, I am not sure I am right, and I will will do more checking just to make sure, are on all our keyboards

Hi folklore, Thank you for taking the time to post to this thread! I can see by what you pointed out, above, that you are actually a teacher at heart. Thanks for being such a fine one. :)

PS And, thanks for your kind words to me.

[summer]

I so enjoyed reading your post #76, Truth Addict. And, dare I say this? I agree with everything you said there! Yes! Alert the media!!! LOL... :)

[summer]

Re your post #68 - LOL...if you have been reading my posts folklore, you must have figured out by now what a lousy typist I am! :)

[summer]

Although, TA, I would just add this: if I was the owner of a private school, I would say to the parents: "OK, here is a schedule of various Saturdays when this school will be offering these tests -- and, if you, the parent, decide you want your child tested, then, show up at the school on that Saturday." Because that leaves it up to the parent, and I do think it is important to keep that control with the parent -- otherwise, private schools start to become exactly like public schools. (Also, I don't mind that one voucher program out of three requires the state tests, because these students are coming out of a failing public school to begin with.) But, I don't think Dems have the right idea by demanding: "OK, EVERYONE DO IT THIS WAY." I hate that.