Family Planning [daughter coerced into murdering grandchild]

The Old Gray Lady [The NY Times] ^ | "The author's name has been withheld."

[SlickWillard]

t started with a premonition from a friend who was crazy, though mostly in good ways. She was a storyteller with a hooting laugh, and one afternoon in front of my wife and daughters, she launched into a tale about how she'd once gotten a job when she showed the boss that she could fit her fist in her mouth. When my friend finished her tale, we all realized that my younger daughter, then 5, had her fist all the way inside her mouth. Out of nowhere, the friend said, ''That child is going to be pregnant by the time she's 15.'' I thought of those words the day my friend died. I thought of them again the day I learned that my daughter was pregnant. She was 15.

Her older sister is on the dean's list at her university, and she's always so well behaved that I sometimes worry she's too good. Maybe my younger daughter feels she has to carve out her own identity by doing what she pleases. She smokes cigarettes and marijuana and doesn't care who knows. She promises to drop out of school when she turns 16. We used to ground her until she realized that there was no way we could forcibly make her do anything she didn't want to do.

My wife knew the girl was pregnant before she did. She was bedridden for several days, and my wife took her to the doctor. According to the laws of my Bible-belt state, a minor needs her parents' permission to have an abortion, but her parents can't tell her not to have a baby. She thought she wanted to keep it and swore she'd be a good mother. My wife and I -- and my oldest daughter -- freaked, and not just because of our dashed aspirations for this girl. We were too old to want to raise another baby -- and we felt sure the raising would fall to us.

Of course there was a boy involved, and he hadn't fled. He lives with his grandparents, and they asked us all to come talk. The grandfather lectured the young couple on responsibility. The boy admitted he wasn't ready to be a father. The only person in the room who wanted the baby was my daughter, but in the face of family advice, she decided she couldn't go through with the pregnancy. My wife scheduled her for an abortion.

The day before surgery, our daughter announced that she had a meeting with a guidance counselor and a county probation officer because of her truancies. She wanted her mother to go with her. Finally, it seemed, we were getting help. My wife came clean, explaining that many of her late arrivals to school had been due to morning sickness. But when she mentioned the abortion, my daughter started crying, and the officer, a woman, ordered my wife to take the girl to a counseling center.

''Like Planned Parenthood?'' the guidance counselor asked.

''No,'' she snapped. She had to go to a pregnancy center that ''tells all sides of the story.'' They drove directly to said ''counseling'' office, which turned out to be an anti-abortion propaganda center, where a counselor showed my daughter aborted fetuses on a video and talked about the after-effects of abortion -- with no mention of the complications of pregnancy. My daughter was right back on the teenage-mommy track. While the counselor went home thinking she had saved a life, we felt we had been sentenced to 18 years of hard labor.

As word spread about the pregnancy, other women called offering to tell about their own abortions. My daughter's friends, her sister, her sister's friends all counseled against having the baby, but she wouldn't listen. We decided to stage an intervention. When my daughter came into the living room, there were 15 women waiting for her, including four mothers. They asked me to leave; I listened from the kitchen, and though I couldn't hear anything other than sobs and laughter, I could feel the gravity. But when it was over, she still hadn't decided.

The next week, I took her to a counseling appointment at Planned Parenthood. As I sat in the waiting room, I thought about my own sister, who had a botched abortion before it was legal. She got kicked out of college for nearly bleeding to death in a dorm room. That night when we got home and my wife asked our daughter what she was going to do, she blurted out, ''I don't have a choice.'' The next day, she turned on Saturday-morning cartoons, as if she'd decided to be a kid again.

We spent a week wondering if she'd change her mind, but she didn't. I realized later that I would have more to worry about if she had easily and immediately decided on an abortion. Ultimately, she did, but she struggled with her decision, and I hope she made the right one.

I still have hope for this daughter. I am astounded at the number of women who have told me about getting pregnant or running away with drug dealers who still grew up to be lawyers, businesspeople and mothers. Adolescence is like a fever: usually it breaks; sometimes it doesn't; often it leaves scars.

I know what's inside my daughter. When she was 4, her best friend died of cancer. Other parents wouldn't let their children play with the dying girl, but my daughter held her friend's hand right up to the end. I am still proud of the way she handled herself. I know that person is in there, and someday, when the fever breaks, I pray that I'll see her again.

The author's name has been withheld.

[SlickWillard]

Did she have one or not? Maybe Im missing something.

Seems so:

I realized later that I would have more to worry about if she had easily and immediately decided on an abortion. Ultimately, she did, but she struggled with her decision, and I hope she made the right one.

[anniegetyourgun]

"Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies..." Rom. 8:33

[JMJ333]

The context of "elect" being discussed is in terms of the idea that some are saved or specially chosen and the others who are not elect, being reprobates, are damned unconditionally. I am saying Christianity is not elitist as this concept suggests, and that redemption is possible through repentance, which is brought about through prayer of others.

[Illbay]

Well, he does forgive those who repent.

[Boss_Jim_Gettys]

"It is either keep the baby or kill it."

I read this story and thought the only two choices were kill it now or wait a while then kill it.

[muawiyah]

As the article says "Ultimately, she did", as did, apparantly almost all the women in this family.

These people are disfunctional. They also appear to be sociopaths.

Did you notice that this woman, who would undoubtedly be the first to scream harrassment if a RTL demonstration appeared out in front of her favorite abortion mill had 15 women into her home simultaneously to to confront her young daughter about it, to intimidate her into having an abortion.

What do our crypto-fascist judges have to say about that sort of behavior?

Does Ruth Ginzburg object? - Obviously not. To Ruth and her ilk, the only good baby is a dead baby.

[Paul Atreides]

Notice that the author states that it is propoganda to show what happens to the baby during an abortion. It must have touched a nerve if it bothered him and his wife so badly. It's interesting how pro-infanticide people like to claim the baby is not a human being, yet they don't want to look at the children they have just murdered. What a convenient world in which they live.

[cardinal4]

I was sure she did. 15 women "intervening?" I have heard of that in drug and alcohol stricken families, but in this case? Yes, the liberals go way too far anymore.

[griffin]

"Christianity isn't an elitist religion. Anyone can come to redemption and salvation, and lost souls are brought to conversion through the prayer of others. In fact, it is the moral obligation of the faithful Christian to pray for these people so that they too may open their hearts to God."

Yes, we may pray for them to accept Christ....and some will. And that is good (Dan 12:3). But like it or not, God is supremely sovereign. He does things because it pleases Him, it brings glory to Him and it occurs because it is in His master plan. He decides who will and who will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Is our theology based on man or God? When we pray for someone to accept Christ in order to receive life are we doing it because we want that individual to be happy or for God to be happy? AND they aren't necessarily the same.

Take for instance His election of angels to choose life with Him. The other 1/3 of the angels were given the choice to either accept Him or not. They chose Not and were thrown down to earth with satan. If the Lord will elect angels and allow others that are not elected to fall, won't He do the same for man?

Take for instance Romans 8:28-33.

Romans 8
28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?
32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?
33 Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies;

Or Matthew:
30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Or 1Timothy 5:
21I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.

Elect = Chosen
Chosen = elected, selected
Justify = Declare guiltless
supreme =
adj.
Greatest in power, authority, or rank; paramount or dominant. Greatest in importance, degree, significance, character, or achievement. Ultimate; final.

sovereign =
n. One that exercises supreme, permanent authority
1. Supreme or highest in power; superior to all others; chief
2. Independent of, and unlimited by, any other; possessing, or entitled to, original authority or jurisdiction

This is the way I understand scripture as of now. Feel free to debate, but I'll be in and out as I have some things to get done today. :)

[watchin]

the counselor went home thinking she had saved a life, we felt we had been sentenced to 18 years of hard labor

That's got to be one of the most selfish statements I've ever read. The reason for this abortion wasn't "incest or life of the mother", but laziness, selfishness, and the purest sort of evil -

"It's too much work. Kill it."

[griffin]

"redemption is possible through repentance, which is brought about through prayer of others. The notion that some are not elect is an invention of the late fifteen hundreds, and opposes the previous 1500 years of Christian doctrine and theology."

If you are saying that by praying you can change other's actions, I'd disagree. I think your putting WAY to much emphasis on man's limited power and underestimating the Lord's power. As far as the 1500 years...Paul wrote Romans in 57 A.D. and I think it is fairly plain for those willing to accept God's sovereighty and minimize man's power. After all, does not satan want to make man think man is 'empowered'? Satan is a great liar and humanist. Makes me smile thinking about some libs calling themselves 'humanists' for surely they do not have the foggiest what they are truely doing, but most are unwilling to listen.

"And grace for lost souls is brought about by the prayer of the faithful."

I would say that you have gotten yourself into some bad theology. If your understanding of grace is that it is brought about through prayers, that is plain, flat out incorrect. Grace is a gift from God. When we pray for salvation of someone, if we are saved, He will hear our prayers and answer. Sometimes the answer is "Yes", sometimes "No" and sometimes "wait", but He will hear and answer if we are rightous. Rightous meaning that we trust in Chrsit and His sacrifice of blood that washed away our sins. And that is the key! Grace is a gift of God and is bestowed upon those who decide to follow Christ thru love and repentance. It is not automatic simply because someone prays for someone else. It is not divied out by prayers of man. It is granted by God becuase it pleases Him and shows His glory in that a sinful person, who CAN NOT stand before a HOLY, PEFFECT GOD, can if they accept Christ and love Him. It is not enough to simply believe, as demons surely do that, but we must LOVE Christ. And if we truly love Christ and are filled with God's Spirit, we will modify our lives to faithfully follow Him.

Hope this makes sense....there is a HUGE difference between whether our Biblical understanding is man or God based.

[griffin]

Oh, and if you want to get a feel for the mindset of what the Lord thinks of man and man's self thoughtof 'power', try reading what the Lord has to say to Job chapters 38 thru 41.

Lord's grace to you JMJ. :) We need to be VERY CAREFUL as to what we say scripture means so as to not lead others astray....

[LadyDoc]

So much for "choice".

I had a 14 year old whose mom pulled this type of trick on her.

A year later, she was pregnant again, but hid it from her mom until she was over five months along and too late for an abortion.

Many of these teenagers get pregnant to "replace" the baby.

And all the women who "pressured her" into aborting were doing so because THEY TOO felt guilty, but needed the reinforcement that they too had done the real thing. It's a defense mechanism to quiet your conscience....

[JMJ333]

Yes, we may pray for them to accept Christ....and some will. And that is good (Dan 12:3). But like it or not, God is supremely sovereign. He does things because it pleases Him, it brings glory to Him and it occurs because it is in His master plan. He decides who will and who will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Is our theology based on man or God? When we pray for someone to accept Christ in order to receive life are we doing it because we want that individual to be happy or for God to be happy? AND they aren't necessarily the same.

God is most definately sovereign, but I believe in free will. Jesus died for all mankind, including the worst sinner. The notion that he selectively applies salvation is, in my opinion, a form of elitism. Since God is perfection, elitism is not a trait of his nature, rather that is a character flaw of humanity.

Grace and conversion of sinners is brought about through prayer. Whether a person chooses to accept grace is a different matter, being that everyone has the freedom to reject truth in favor of other desires of the heart.

It is our moral obligation as Christians to pray for those who live in mortal sin and do not understand the gravity of their situation. Through our intercession souls are brought to Christ. Repentance is then up to them.

[homeschool mama]

What a precious picture, annie.

[valkyrieanne]

This girl is most likely a victim of statutory rape. Why is everyone permitted to conceal and not report this sex crime? Why is it permissible to publicly flay Catholic priests who commit sexual abuse, but not those who get 15 year old girls pregnant, and those who write their pill prescriptions or do their abortions?

[Ronaldus Magnus]

...15 women who will burn in hell for all eternity.

It's difficult for me not to hope so. Our God may be infinitely merciful, but He is also infinitely just. I can't see how women so evil as to conspire to convince a girl to murder her baby would ever be able to change enough to humble themselves and truly repent. One reason abortion should be illegalized and suppressed, other than to save the innocent children, is to make it more difficult for people like these to be able to commit such a terrible sin.

P.S. I would include the father who helped stage and permitted this intervention and make it an even 16.

[JMJ333]

Grace to you also. =)

Jesus said: Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and it will be opened for you.

I ask for the conversion of those who live in mortal sin. I ask that they be given grace. In His mercy, love, and kindness God will answer because He thirsts for souls.

What the person does after receiving grace is up to them. No one ever said the cross was easy.

[fatima]

You are so right,just went through this with a wanted baby,everyone wanted the baby but the girl changed her mind and aborted at 6 months.Turns out she was pregnant 11 months before that and aborted without telling anyone. Shame on the grandfather and grandmother of this little girl and may she be giving the grace to forgive them.