[Arioch7]

I know you are not directing this post directly towards me but since I am here and seem to come back no matter how hard I try to leave...

I would just like to mention that I do not subscribe to the ultra low level fat diet that some do.

Now since most of us are talking about personal anecdotes as well as giving our respective refferences, I would like to add some of my own.

I have never met a person on a low carb diet that stayed thin permanently kept it off. I know that you all have reasons and I can dig it. They stop the diet thus they gain the weight back. I still have NEVER seen one fit person in my life use a low carb diet.

My dad was diagnosed with type2 diabetes and did get his sugar level down to the point that he considered himself diabetes free.

You DO lose weight on the Atkins diet, I am not disputing this. Bodybuilders since the 1970's have used carb depletion to suck out the water and rip them up and lose all excess fat. Almost none of them stay on this diet year round as they find it difficult to train. Hey, thats the majority of them, I think they might be on to something since they do it all the time.

I roiginally lost all my weight on a low CALORIE diet as I did not know much about nutrition. I did that and exercised. After I was thin, I researched the subject and I already told you all the people I model myself after.

I have been in the military, into bodybuilding(As a hobby.) and a martial artist my whole adult life. All of these things I have done on my diet and all of the people who have excelled at these things think like me. The people that I know that is. See, its anecdotal.

I was fat until the age of 16 so I do not consider what I say is discriminatory. I know quite a few people that have found success with weight-watchers but not one with a low carb diet.

I have watched bodybuilders train while they are "carb-depleting" and it is not a pretty sight. None of them stays on that type of diet. I have also seen the off season stuff myself silly approach which is hig-EVERYTHING so carbs ARE included in the mix. This practice has stopped. Bottom line, they do what works for them.

NOw, you can say they are all on steroids and you might be right but I also know plenty of martial artists and military(At least I USED to know MIlitary men.) who think like I do.

Endurance athletes are another story as they (AS A GROUP.) consume much more carbs then both of us but they are among the thinnest athletes known. Again, people said "I know so and so," but I know quite a few and they ALL do what I post.

Now this is all anecdotal and you say it works for you so by all means do it. I mentioned that we cant really agree on this but I do thin that for certain people the Atkins diet might be helpful. I do believe that.

So, more power to you and I wish you luck.

[Dana113]

Arioch, the problem with your premise is that A) it is anecdotal and my own anecdotal experience can cancel yours out [I posted threads from professional body builders and Nutrition directors of national gyms who agree with me] and B) you are presuming that Atkins dieters should be body builders, which is a fallacy and C) you are placing the highly QUESTIONABLE knowledge of body builders over that of real experts, such as cardiologists, scientists, endocrinologists at some of the nations most prestigious universities and teaching hospitals.

Most Atkins dieters were formerly heavy to obese and there is no reason to think that they would become body builders so that is a bogus standard that you have set yourself. The success of a diet is not contingent upon how many people become body builders. I would also venture to guess that not many body builders have EVER BEEN OBESE in the first place so they would have no reason to try Atkins because they HAVE NO NEED to diet. So maybe you should ask yourself just how many of your body builder friends were OBESE in the past and in a position to NEED a diet?

Even so, we come back to my initial point that you keep ignoring. Body builders and professional athletes are NOT cardiologists, scientists, researchers, endocrinologists and have conducted NO RESEARCH on thier own. They are certainly much less qualified than that crowd. It defies logic to ask us to trust the judgement of some uneducated musclebound knucklehead - just because he is "fit" - over an array of some of the nation's most prestigious doctors, scientists, experts at some of the nations' top universities. Now c'mon, that just makes no sense and makes me think that you are grasping to support an insupportable view.

Further, I have produced several studies, on this very thread, that show that more dieters stick to low carb than low fat. The fact is that there are no long term studies that show success on a low fat diet. Most studies fail because the participants drop out at double the rate of the higher fat participants.