Posted on 07/05/2002 5:10:33 AM PDT by CIBvet
I remember waiting for chow one morning at oh-dark-thirty. I was a rear road guard and was standing at parade rest in the back of the formation. Some of those little Texas flies were crawling on my face and into my eyes (dringing my tears, it was so dry). I noticed the TI was not looking at me (he was jawboning with some other TI's) so I reached up and swatted the flies off my face. Well, Sgt Green did see me. He ran to me screaming, "What the $%$## you doing boy?!" Coming to attention I told him, "Swating flies off my face, sir!" "Oh, flies?", he says, then proceeds to B-slap me across my face. At that moment I saw stars and was knocked to the ground. I did manage to jump back up to the position of attention. He then said, "Did I get him"? I said, "Yes, Sir!" He then said, "Get your cover on!" I graped my fatigue cap and squared it away and came back to attention in an instant. He then said, "Don't EVER let me see you movin' your %%$% @#$ in formation again. I don't care if a buzzard is eatin' your liver. Understood?" I was, "Yes Sir!!" at the top of my lungs.
To this day I still wonder about two things from that morning. 1. How did he see me swatting flies when his back was to me, and 2. How could I ever have been such a numbnuts to swat at the stupid flies in the first place?
Funny thing, when I relate this story to new airmen or officers, they all look horrified and say, "You should have gone to the 1st Sgt and complained. They're not supposed to hit you!" Ha! Sgt Green did me a favor. Call it an act of love, even. I was wrong, I had disobeyed orders, and rather than write me up or screw me over, he took care of my problem immediately. Since that day, I NEVER had a problem standing at parade rest or attention, no matter how hot, dry, cold, or whatever.
Nuff said. That's a point for the Army right there.
No, that indicates that you were not properly socialized either. No effective military unit will have the privates asking the colonels what is going on.
They know that in the Marine Corps.
Walt
During Desert Storm I was talking to a Marine Warrant officer who was a marksmanship instructor. He told me that some years previously the Army had bulldozed the berms on all their rifle ranges, the 300, 500 and 800 yard lines. The Army wanted to concentrate on quick kill courses. As of 1990, they were rethinking that. Good marksmanship has been a Marine Corps hallmark for 100 years. I believe it is not so important in the Army, no matter what some swab jockey told you. :)
Walt
All I'm saying is this- Hack's still fighting the last war. He's going to see something negative in everything regarding the military. But come on! Even in our losses (Somalia) our kill ratio is much higher than it ever was. The American Military is lethal. They're deadly. They will protect you. Would Patton dissaprove of today's military? No doubt- hell he wasn't happy back then. But, this aint Patton's world and it aint Patton's war. We'll win this war.
The Regular Army hasn't even been used in Afghanistan. Oh sure- the 101st and 10th Mountain are there but this aint the Army! The Army is HUGE! The Army is a big sweaty smelly stinking beast. It doesn't roll into anywhere- it rumbles! It shakes the Earth! Like I said before, the Army (just the Army- not the Navy, Air Force or those 50 Marines- just kidding) is bigger than some NATIONS. Do you remember the last time the Army was really unleashed? The Mother of All Battles turned out to be what? Those privates that were storming across the desert in 91 are today's SGTs. Those Lts that were shaking in their speed laces are today's Colonels.
I'll say it again. Which way is Hackworth going to make the most money? By posting an article that says "The Military is in dangerous shape- Thousands of your SONS and DAUGHTERS will DIE as a result!" or "The military is a capable force and ready to respond to any threat!"
What he's engaging in is calculated scare mongering. He's focusing solely on the negative side of this in order to fan the flames of "Get Tough in the Military". It's not a bad thing he's doing. It can only be useful. But all I'm saying is, if you sit there and think that it is just the way Hack says, you're wrong. He gets good money for reporting on the military in a pessimistic light- for reporting in a way that reinforces his own world view of how the military should be- which isn't necessarily the way it ought to be.
Our men and women in uniform are doing a good job. They are going to win this war! I say Hallelujah! that we have such fine Americans fighting for us. Pray for them, honor their sacrifices- don't call 'em a bunch of wusses.
I can attest from personal experience that the training has degraded to the point that Boy Scouts spend more time in the field and have to maintain a higher level of readiness than our line units. Stories on request.
Molon Labe!
I don't think Hack is saying that. What he IS saying though is that when we do have another full scale war, many soldiers are going to die due to the lack of training standards and the lack of discipline. They are going to die because PC was more important to the brass than ensuring their soldiers train to fight.
You state that Hackworth gets paid to be a pessimist, that no one would buy his material if he was positive (paraphrased). You may be correct. I don't know the man. However, I did have a SGM who served under him in 'Nam that thought he was the greatest soldier since Audie Murphy. I have also read Col. Hackworth's autobiography. His attitude now appears to be no different than the attitude he displayed as an officer on active duty.
I would say that spending several years as an enlisted man fighting Yugoslavian commies in Greece gave him a different perspective than your normal officer. He was also one of the first to arrive in Korea after TF Smith got their asses kicked so bad (due to sending piss-pour trained troops from Japan). He seen firsthand what happens to poorly trained troops.
As a Lt. Col. (or Colonel, I can't remeber which)in 'Nam, he knowingly ruined his career by lambasting the brass and politicians over the politicalization of the war, over not being able to make on-the-spot battlefield decisions (as well as other issues I cannot remember)on live TV. Here was a man who by all accounts was guaranteed a generals rank if he would have kept his mouth shut. Yet he threw it all away because he was tired of seeing his soldiers killed due to the incompetencies and PC of Westmoreland and his gang, who were of course being directed by the administration.
As I stated, you could be correct on your assesment of Hack. Autobiographies are self-serving, and never tell the whole story. One thing is for sure though, Hack was high speed, low drag and teflon coated. I would not take his warnings lightly.
I got out in '96 and even then things had changed. The number of failures in RIP (Ranger Indoctrination Program)had started to increase dramatically. In conversations with black-hat friends in airborne school, they were having the same problems.
Even basic at Benning had changed. When I went through basic, we ran in combat boots. Not anymore. Now they run in tennis shoes. In '95 a drill sergeant at Benning was marching his troops from a range to the chowhall. He was running late, so he had his soldiers double-time so they could eat (distance of about a quarter mile). Well, a Battalion Commander saw this and relieved the drill sergeant on the spot. Outrageous.
The problem is, IMO, that you have brass that care more about their next promotion than they do their troops. They are not soldiers, they are managers. There's huge difference as you well know. You also have rules/regulations being written by DOD civilians and/or politicians who have never served in combat a day in their lives and truly don't give a f**k about soldiers but care only about either staying in office and/or being PC
That's my take on it anyway.
RLTW!
Semper Suo
My point though, was the average soldier doesn't just run off and do whatever stupid thing his SGT tells him. The average soldier is a bit more flexible. Why do you think we call 'em Jarheads? The Army encourages the soldier to ask questions. The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask. What can be the harm in a soldier asking a question that helps him to understand what he has to get done? This is nothing new. A jarhead thinks he's invincible. A soldier knows he's not and just wants to get the job done in the most sensible manner possible. If he has to die, so be it- there are plenty of soldiers that gave the ultimate sacrifice, but he would prefer not to. He would prefer to make the enemy die instead.
I don't want to rant here. But you are MISTAKEN if you think that the chain of command is not respected in the Army. The Army is a huge institution. If the Marines were the same scale and size as the Army, you'd find plenty of room for complaint down in the Halls of Montezuma. But the Marines are a smaller more focused group. They task off a lot of things that are part of the Army to the Navy- but the Marines aren't big enough to fight a war alone. They play their part- but the Army has a part to play as well and it's just as important, soldiers are just as courageous and it will NOT get done without the Army- period.
More sweat in peace = less blood in war. What's so complicated in that?? What's the point of fielding a p*ssified military?
I come from a military family: My dad is a Marine (retired), my one younger brother is a Marine infantry grunt (out now), my other younger brother is a Naval Flight officer, out of the USN in Annapolis, my older brother was in the Air Force...all of them say the same damn thing:
More sweat in peace = less blood in war.
All these things are true and are a deep concern to me as well.
What he IS saying though is that when we do have another full scale war, many soldiers are going to die due to the lack of training standards and the lack of discipline.
And what I am asking is WHEN? When are all these soldiers going to die? Afghanistan was supposed to be the one that kicked everybody's a$$. The Afghanis kicked Alexander's a$$. We were supposed to die in droves there. What happened? When's it going to happen? You can already hear rumbles of "Well... Gulf War 2 won't be anything like the pushover Gulf War 1 was. Americans are going to come home in body bags (repeat in capitals and exclamation points for those not paying attention)". Do I think it will happen? No.
We are the biggest baddest dog on the planet. It's NOT all doom and gloom. This is just like those "End Days, Revelations! DOOM! DOOM! DOOM!" snakeoil salesmen who are currently doing so well in America. They're telling you what you want to hear and they're making good money doing it.
Let me repeat, the American Military is going to kick the Holy Sh!t out of our enemies. We are going to do this in the most impressive manner possible. Military scholars are going to puzzle and masterbate over our coming victories for decades to come. Do we need improvement- yes! No organization can make the statement that they are perfect. But are we ready! Hell Yeah! Just turn the boys loose and let 'em do what they need to do. Support 'em for Chrissakes! It's only the politics that are holding them back.
I was attesting to his communication skills, not his library skills. :)
If I would have ever taken it upon myself to walk up to him and ask him such an off-the-wall question as a private, every NCO in my chain of command, from my squad leader to my BN SGM would have literally kicked my ass. Shit I'd probably STILL be doing push-ups! Of course this would have been AFTER whatever punishment the BN CO handed out to me :)
If I was that young privates NCO, I would have been not only highly P.O.'d at the private, I would also have been highly embarrassed by his/her actions. It reflects badly upon that privates enlisted chain of command.
There are no such thing as poor soldiers....only poor leaders. I don't know who originally said that, but my platoon sergeant told me that when I first made corporal. It's stuck in my mind every since. Especially since I have become a sillyvilian. The lack of leadership qualities in corporate management is truly abysmal, but that's a whole other topic.
RLTW!
Semper Suo
Why?
Platoon shitbirds were outted with little fanfare and disposed of.
Service branch rivelry was/is the healthiest form of military life. Pride and bragging rights comes to each and every member of the armed forces at one time or another which equates to combat readiness and concrete dependency on whichever unit has been chosen to watch your back while you do your stuff.
The Marine Corps is a department of the U.S. Navy (the Men's Department), but when it comes down to who's watchin' who's six, the prideful serviceman does his job and a sloppy job produces nothing but American body bags.
Semper Fi
Never spoke to your Platoon Seargent? Jesus. In the Army, the Platoon Seargent isn't even In your chain of command, nor is your 1st Seargent or Seargent Major. That's the truth. Chain of Command in the Army goes- Squad Leader, Platoon Leader, Company Commander, Battalion Commander etc. There is a high degree of interaction between officers and enlisted (apparantly- if we judge this Marine thing as the norm).
An officer isn't a God. He puts his pants on the same way anybody else does. As far as that goes, the President isn't a God either.
I have to ask myself, which would I prefer. The situation is- the General says to his minions- accomplish this and thus. Apparantly, from what I'm hearing, in the Marines they would just run off and do it no matter how stupid it was. In the Army, if someone of lower rank realized that there was a way to do it twice as fast- he would probably say as much and if he did it with the proper tact and respect for military rank, the Army would profit- for we would get done twice as quickly as the Marines. Is there a rule (I mean an actual reg) in the Marines that says you can't talk to an officer? That's fair enough if that's what you want- total serfdom. But the Army has no such rule. If a person of lower rank wants to speak to a person of higher rank, he must do it by the proper protocols and use the proper respect. There is no rule that says a soldier can't ask a Colonel- or a General for that matter- the time of day.
I wil clarify this. If a soldier has a problem, he can't go straight to the Colonel. But if he's just walking along and sees the Colonel and decides to ask him a question, there's no rule that says he can't and why should there be?
You ask when. I don't know when. However, my opinion is it will be within the next 10 years and it will be a WW against China, Russia, and pretty much the whole middle east and maybe even Indonesia.
Right now we are kicking ass because we're using mostly bat-boys, d-boys and SF against the Afgani's. The 10th Mountain folks are sucking wind and haven't been cutting the mustard. Maybe they'll do better once they are acclimated to the altitude, I don't know. However, the mission of 10th Mountain being what it is, they should have already been acclimated. So that right there points to a failure in training on the part of the leadership of the 10th. Of course with the budget shortfalls the way they are, training for even bat-boys and SF have dropped dramatically, so I can imagine what it must be like for normal line units.
When we are forced to fight a nation that has airborne/specops capabilities, then you will see ton's of poorly trained support personnel being killed in theatre. When they start hitting our logistics and communications abilities, then everyone will see that Hack was right.
Does that mean we'll lose? No, I don't think so. It just means lotsa folks are gonna die. The rest will take up the slack and pray that the reinforcements are better trained. History will repeat itself (i.e. TF Smith).
RLTW!
Semper Suo
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