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To: Prodigal Son
...And anyway, what is the standard here? Are we saying our military isn't up to this job? Are we saying they will get defeated?...

I don't think Hack is saying that. What he IS saying though is that when we do have another full scale war, many soldiers are going to die due to the lack of training standards and the lack of discipline. They are going to die because PC was more important to the brass than ensuring their soldiers train to fight.

You state that Hackworth gets paid to be a pessimist, that no one would buy his material if he was positive (paraphrased). You may be correct. I don't know the man. However, I did have a SGM who served under him in 'Nam that thought he was the greatest soldier since Audie Murphy. I have also read Col. Hackworth's autobiography. His attitude now appears to be no different than the attitude he displayed as an officer on active duty.

I would say that spending several years as an enlisted man fighting Yugoslavian commies in Greece gave him a different perspective than your normal officer. He was also one of the first to arrive in Korea after TF Smith got their asses kicked so bad (due to sending piss-pour trained troops from Japan). He seen firsthand what happens to poorly trained troops.

As a Lt. Col. (or Colonel, I can't remeber which)in 'Nam, he knowingly ruined his career by lambasting the brass and politicians over the politicalization of the war, over not being able to make on-the-spot battlefield decisions (as well as other issues I cannot remember)on live TV. Here was a man who by all accounts was guaranteed a generals rank if he would have kept his mouth shut. Yet he threw it all away because he was tired of seeing his soldiers killed due to the incompetencies and PC of Westmoreland and his gang, who were of course being directed by the administration.

As I stated, you could be correct on your assesment of Hack. Autobiographies are self-serving, and never tell the whole story. One thing is for sure though, Hack was high speed, low drag and teflon coated. I would not take his warnings lightly.

I got out in '96 and even then things had changed. The number of failures in RIP (Ranger Indoctrination Program)had started to increase dramatically. In conversations with black-hat friends in airborne school, they were having the same problems.

Even basic at Benning had changed. When I went through basic, we ran in combat boots. Not anymore. Now they run in tennis shoes. In '95 a drill sergeant at Benning was marching his troops from a range to the chowhall. He was running late, so he had his soldiers double-time so they could eat (distance of about a quarter mile). Well, a Battalion Commander saw this and relieved the drill sergeant on the spot. Outrageous.

The problem is, IMO, that you have brass that care more about their next promotion than they do their troops. They are not soldiers, they are managers. There's huge difference as you well know. You also have rules/regulations being written by DOD civilians and/or politicians who have never served in combat a day in their lives and truly don't give a f**k about soldiers but care only about either staying in office and/or being PC

That's my take on it anyway.

RLTW!

Semper Suo

28 posted on 07/05/2002 8:37:30 AM PDT by bat-boy
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To: bat-boy
The problem is, IMO, that you have brass that care more about their next promotion than they do their troops. They are not soldiers, they are managers. There's huge difference as you well know. You also have rules/regulations being written by DOD civilians and/or politicians who have never served in combat a day in their lives and truly don't give a f**k about soldiers but care only about either staying in office and/or being PC

All these things are true and are a deep concern to me as well.

What he IS saying though is that when we do have another full scale war, many soldiers are going to die due to the lack of training standards and the lack of discipline.

And what I am asking is WHEN? When are all these soldiers going to die? Afghanistan was supposed to be the one that kicked everybody's a$$. The Afghanis kicked Alexander's a$$. We were supposed to die in droves there. What happened? When's it going to happen? You can already hear rumbles of "Well... Gulf War 2 won't be anything like the pushover Gulf War 1 was. Americans are going to come home in body bags (repeat in capitals and exclamation points for those not paying attention)". Do I think it will happen? No.

We are the biggest baddest dog on the planet. It's NOT all doom and gloom. This is just like those "End Days, Revelations! DOOM! DOOM! DOOM!" snakeoil salesmen who are currently doing so well in America. They're telling you what you want to hear and they're making good money doing it.

Let me repeat, the American Military is going to kick the Holy Sh!t out of our enemies. We are going to do this in the most impressive manner possible. Military scholars are going to puzzle and masterbate over our coming victories for decades to come. Do we need improvement- yes! No organization can make the statement that they are perfect. But are we ready! Hell Yeah! Just turn the boys loose and let 'em do what they need to do. Support 'em for Chrissakes! It's only the politics that are holding them back.

32 posted on 07/05/2002 8:58:31 AM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: bat-boy
They are going to die because PC was more important to the brass than ensuring their soldiers train to fight.

PC is part of the problem. The bigger problem is numbers. Every echelon in the Army is under extreme pressure to fill slots with people. Because of that, the quality of the people becomes a secondary issue. It would be far better for the Army to fail miserably to meet its strength figures than to permit substandard soldiers to fill the ranks.

110 posted on 07/05/2002 11:44:32 PM PDT by arm958
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