Posted on 07/02/2002 3:37:44 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
In fact, black units were raised almost from the beginning of the war. The first known combat by a black unit was against the Confederates on October 27 & 28, 1862 at Island Mound, Missouri by the 1st Kansas Colored Volunteer Regiment before being mustered into service. The regiment was organized in August 1862, mustered into service January 13, 1863, and later redesignated the 79th United States Colored Infantry Regiment. What you are confusing are the USCT regiments, the formation of which began in 1863, and state volunteer regiments. Those were formed as early as September 1862.
You just described three quarters of the rebel army, billbears. About 30% were draftees and most of the rest had their enlistments involuntarily extended for the duration of the war in 1862. Those are facts. Your claim about Union black soldiers are your own opinion.
However, by the fall of 1862, events had changed in favor of accepting black soldiers. Declining Union enlistments, heavy battle losses and the realization that the war would take more time and resources than expected, confronted President Abraham Lincoln and the Union Army. Continued pressure by abolitionists and awareness of the potential of black labor as the Confederacy had already discovered, also contributed to lifting the Army's prohibition of "Negroes or Mulattoes," in existence since 1820.Let's see, the Emancipation Proclamation was released in Sept '62 and the change in Army procedures didn't happen until at least after that
BS bill. The officers who recruited them were staunch abolitionists. They believed in equality.
You're starting to remind me of a Begala or Carville with your Clintonic spin.
The truth is that the South seceded and fought to preserve slavery. That was the entire reason it seceded without the fear that their slaves were going to be taken away there would have been no rebellion. The North fought to preserve the Union. Most did not give a shiite about slavery, blacks, the idiot culture of the South or any other excuse given for them fighting. Lincoln mobilized to put down the insurrection aimed at destroying the Union.
The truth is the South wanted nothing to do with Black soldiers and resisted to the end enlisting them in any significant numbers. This is easily shown by the records of hundreds of thousands of Blacks fighting for the North in constrast to the words quoted by Whiskey Papa showing the contempt the Southern leaders showed to the idea of black soldiers.
The proportion of blacks fighting for the Cornfederacy was as high as the proportion of Jews fighting for the Nazis. Either was an extreme anomaly.
According to your own numbers there were 4.5 million slaves in the South!! And even accepting your number only 90,000 fought for the north? And reread that page. Those folks were in occupied Southern territory meaning they didn't escape north, the northern invaders came to them. Then not even to free them but to maintain status quo and 'hey while you're at it fight for us and we'll feed you since we've about burned or destroyed everything else around here'. What do you think the other 4,410,000 or so were doing? They couldn't have all stayed at home. No, because just as many blacks were fighting or supporting the South in one form or another.
As for the 180,000 number, it's not mine, it's the city of Alexandria VA with a big ol' picture of Frederick Douglas. You think it would pass the Asa Gordon test? I don't even know that it's true, but I figured hey if this government authority puts up a picture of Douglass not even recognizing his own statement about the blacks fighting for the South, it has to be liberal enough for y'all to accept it
Ditto, I would be really surprised if you sink so low as to endorse Asa Gordon's position. The author of this article is parroting his racist sentiments and the Orlando Sentinel is none the better for publishing this filth. Before you side with Gordon, you better read his website
Oh come on, billbears, now you're starting to sound like stande watie. Sure the south dragged a lot of black labor around with them, and sure a percentage of that labor was there because they wanted to be. But the idea of hundreds of thousands of black soldiers is ridicuolous and always has been. It would have been out of character for the southern leadership to have supported the concept.
April 9, 2802 (L-K)
"The Enemy Within: Black Self-Oppression, A Workshop"
Carter Ward
Are we going to be around then? Talk about future planning!! On a more serious note, he has a page dedicated to how SCOTUS 'stole' the 2000 election.
Non to answer your question It would have been out of character for the southern leadership to have supported the concept.
As out of character as it was for the northern leadership to support the concept officially for 2 years into the war even though evidence presented shows that it happened nonetheless? I'm not saying hundreds of thousands, but I am saying much more than a handful
Thanks but I've got my Saint Abe of Lincoln workshop that weekend. Maybe next time.
The Jewish population in 1860 has been estimated at about 200,000. There were about 8,000 Jewish-Americans in the Union and Confederate armies: approx. 3000 for the South and 5000 for the North (proportional to the population that settled in these regions).
What has always fascinated me about the Civil War is that it was one of the very few wars in history in which Jews fought on both sides.
Do you disavow the article he posted from the Confederate Veteran magazine from 1915? There was no talk of 65,000 Black Confederates back then when there were still tens of thousands of real veterans alive. That crap didn't get invented till much later.
And I still don't get it with the Jews? What are you trying to say? That a few dozen Jews served in the CSA army so there was no anti-Semitism in the south?
LOL!! Couple of questions for you here. Real simple.
1--Which Jewish statesman held 3 different positions on the Confederate Cabinet
2--Where is the ONLY Jewish military cemetary outside of the state of Israel?
Here's a hint. You won't find the answers north of Virginia. Thirdly pick up the Jewish Confederates. Don't think it would open your closed mind but it's still factual. I know that's something you yankees play fast and loose with, this however is truth
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