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What struck me most when I first read this correspondence was the following thought: a person can go to a meeting with people on the right, and talk, and discuss, BUT, it seems near impossible to do the same with the LEFT. Odd. Are people on the right more open-minded? More willing to share information and beliefs? What accounts for this difference?

Also, I thought -- Is it that close for these Dems in races around the country? Are they that scared of 3rd Party candidates? I am curious. They really sound like they are falling apart here. If so, does this mean easy wins for the GOP nationwide? I just wonder. What do you think?

BTW, what's the Dems' big problem with term limits? The Dem site sounds especially crazy with this complaint here:

He [Nader] backs term-limits, a quick and dirty way to deprive Americans of their right to vote for a candidate of their choice and improve prospects for the Greens and worsen the prospects for veteran Democrats.

Are the Dems afraid they might never again win another election? That's what it sounds like.

Finally, if you want the URL to read the complete text of the letters above, freepmail me and I will freepmail it to you.

1 posted on 06/25/2002 3:39:12 PM PDT by summer
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To: summer
What a funny squabble. Grover Norquist is a triangulating, "Islam is Peace," Pro-Amnesty for Illegals kook. If this RINO wants to meet with Nader, that's not necessarily good for the GOP, nor bad for Leftists.



2 posted on 06/25/2002 3:47:19 PM PDT by Sabertooth
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
I guess your essay made me ponder all this today! LOL.. :)
3 posted on 06/25/2002 3:47:41 PM PDT by summer
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To: summer
a person can go to a meeting with people on the right, and talk, and discuss, BUT, it seems near impossible to do the same with the LEFT. Odd. Are people on the right more open-minded? More willing to share information and beliefs? What accounts for this difference?

Yes and yes. One problem with liberals is that THEY KNOW BEST what you should eat, drink, see, say, wear, drive, live in, believe. Another little problem is information. The more people can hear both sides of a debate, and be equipped to understand said debate in the first place, the more likely they will make informed choices. This is anathema to the hard left crowd. For their strategy to succeed, their constituency must be kept ignorant, afraid and unempowered.

Whether the left's control consists of scaring gullible senior citizens over Social Security and Medicare, playing the race card whenever possible, or condoning behavior patterns which keep people tied to welfare, you can be sure that they will maintain that control at all costs. No tactic is too dirty. If they can't control enough people, they will control the ballot boxes and voting precincts. Count on it.

5 posted on 06/25/2002 3:54:04 PM PDT by petuniasevan
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To: summer
RAT ATTACK BUMP!!! emotion consumerist animals on the prowl.
7 posted on 06/25/2002 3:59:11 PM PDT by lavaroise
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To: summer
summer has the best post's bump
15 posted on 06/25/2002 4:07:30 PM PDT by TheRedSoxWinThePennant
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To: summer
Bump to the rat word. That is what the democrats are, most if not all of them. Good thread.
25 posted on 06/25/2002 4:15:40 PM PDT by TLBSHOW
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To: summer
Okay, where do I send my support checks for the "watermelons" (green on the outside, red on the inside). If the Lefties are THAT afraid of their success, I want to do my share to help 'em out! Besides, this will assuage the FR detractors who fear my vote for the Constitution Party might cost them an election. BOTH major parties lose a vote or three! Everybody wins!! ;^)
26 posted on 06/25/2002 4:15:44 PM PDT by Teacher317
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To: summer
Could've been worse . . . they could've used terms like "Gore-basher," "Nader-bot," "kool-aid drinker," etc.
33 posted on 06/25/2002 4:20:22 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: summer
I think this makes perfect sense.
The only people you should ever try to convert to your philosophies are those who agree with you.


/sarcasm off
38 posted on 06/25/2002 4:22:25 PM PDT by gitmo
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To: summer
I myself have never used the word "RAT" before to describe a Democrat, but today I find there is no other word .. .

You've come a long way baby.

Does your mother know the crowd you are hanging out with ?

44 posted on 06/25/2002 4:24:46 PM PDT by LarryLied
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To: summer
Don't be too hard on the DUmmies. I go there at least twice a day for the laughs. If they implode, it will mean losing a great source of mirth.
54 posted on 06/25/2002 4:35:16 PM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: summer
While some might not like Norquist, I have to admit he is one very cagey operator. This guy has just sown some SERIOUS seeds of discord among our enemies, and as they try to prove their bonafides among the leftists, we move in and clean up in the center big time.

This is a brilliant stroke on Norquist's part. I, for one, applaud him. The more time and effort the left spends fighting each other, the less time and effort they will spend - or have available - to attack our guys.
60 posted on 06/25/2002 4:48:20 PM PDT by hchutch
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To: summer
Thanks for posting this! I love the title -- RAT ATTACK! You are so right!
63 posted on 06/25/2002 5:31:11 PM PDT by PhiKapMom
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To: summer
In light of my considerable ignorance about Norquist, I did some research. Below is an article about his ideas and his career from Insight on the News. Click here for article

Grover Norquist takes on the tyranny of federal taxation.(head of Americans for Tax Reform)(includes biographical information)(Interview)

Author/s: John Berlau

Issue: Jan 26, 1998

The founder and president of Americans for Tax Reform reamed his conservatism as a child anti since has given himself over to grass" roots activism as a Republican antitax policy advocate.

Ever since Republicans took control of Congress in 1994 and his long-time friend, Rep. Newt Gingrich of Georgia, became House speaker, conservative antitax activist Grover Norquist has become increasingly prominent as a Republican idea and power broker. Most Republican political candidates at both the federal and state levels now sign the pledge promoted by Norquists group, Americans for Tax Reform, or ATR, to vote against tax increases. And every Wednesday, Norquist hosts a morning meeting of conservative policy wonks, lobbyists and congressional staffers to discuss strategies to move their agenda forward. He tries to unite conservatives of various stripes in what he calls the "Leave Us Alone" coalition.

Insight: How did you become a conservative?

Grover Norquist: I was actually a foreign-policy conservative first. The Weston, Mass., library sold off for a nickel each all of its old conservative books. So I got Witness by Whitaker Chambers for a nickel. I got I Led Three Lives by Herb Philbrick. I got Masters of Deceit about the Communists by [J. Edgar] Hoover. And I read them as an 11-year-old.

People come into the general conservative movement from different directions. I was first an anticommunist, but then as I learned economics I became an economic conservative. Just being an American makes you be in favor of freedom and against too much government, and if you think about it for long you realize that we've drifted away from that over the last several decades.

Insight: You've referred to conservatives as the "Leave Us Alone" coalition. How did you envision this?

GN: I was writing a book called Rock the House trying to explain how and why we took the Reagan coalition, the center right presidential majority which we've enjoyed since 1968, and drove it down into Congress. And what I was trying to get to is what is the central organizing principle of the center-right conservative coalition. And I would argue that everybody is in the room for many different reasons, but they're all in because on whatever issue that brings them to politics they wish to be left alone.

The gun owners -- such as the members of the National Rifle Association -- get involved in politics because they don't want their guns taken away. Homeschoolers come to politics because they want their children left alone. Tax activists come in because they don't want to be taxed out of existence. The smallbusiness and property-rights groups don't want to be regulated out of business, don't want their property taken away and their businesses expropriated by regulation or by taxes.

This doesn't mean that everybody in the conservative movement is a libertarian, but on the issue that motivates them they want to be left alone, they want the government away.

Insight: Some would say the Christian right is trying to impose an agenda and are not necessarily interested in "leaving us alone."

GN: You have to go back to the motivation. The Christian right did not get organized in 1963 when prayer was taken out of public schools. They didn't organize in 1973 with Roe vs. Wade [which legalized abortion]. They organized in 1978, 1979 and 1980 in response to the Carter administration's assault on Christian radio stations and private schools. Carter's IRS announced to anybody who started a Christian school in the last 20 years: "We'll presume your school is a segregated academy, so we attack and take your status away from you." And then they started leaning on Christian radio stations for not giving equal time -- to whom, the devil? That's when the Southern Baptists got political and got organized. The reason the Christian right got organized was in self-defense against a series of [government] assaults.

I've been in the room when Republican leaders turn to a Ralph Reed and say "What do you want?" "We want tuition tax credits, we want per-child tax credits, we don't want the government to take our money and make fun of our religion with the National Endowment for the Arts funding Piss Christ." This fits very comfortably in the "Leave Us Alone" coalition.

Insight: How did your life change when all of a sudden in 1994 Republicans swept both houses of Congress and you went from being an outside agitator to a close friend of the speaker of the House, the third most powerful man in the federal government?

GN: It was less of a transition than I expected. I flew down to Atlanta to spend election night with Speaker Gingrich and his campaign in 1994 because I believed we were going to take the House and the Senate, and we had decided sometime earlier that summer that it was doable and going to happen. So I can remember hearing on TV that the establishment announced that Republicans will take the House and Senate and not being particularly surprised.... That night, Gingrich passed out ice-cream bars and champagne to 20 or 30 of us sitting there. Then he said, "Okay, that's done. Now, back to work." The next morning I was on a plane back [to Washington] for the Wednesday "Leave Us Alone" meeting organized toward what do we do now.

The difference, I suppose, is that now the establishment press has been somewhat more open to our viewpoints, whereas before these people didn't know and didn't care -- although that's not completely true. There are still reporters who have never phoned the taxpayers' movement and asked what we thought about anything.

Insight: Any other significant changes for you or for ATR after Republicans came into power?

GN: We have focused a lot more at the state level as a result. When Republicans said, "We're going to come in and disperse power to the states," they actually meant it. So we've focused a great deal on building state taxpayer groups in all 50 states and networks similar to the Wednesday "Leave Us Alone" coalition, only meeting in states. Now, on almost everything we do, there's a two-track process, there's federal legislation and there's state legislation

Insight: What do you look for in an issue to go after or to recommend to the Republican Party to pursue?

GN: Does it unite the "Leave Us Alone" coalition, unite the center-right? Does it make everybody happy, or are they at least indifferent? There are some issues that different groups don't care about, but they should be either for it or indifferent.

Does it divide the left? School choice reaches right into the heart of the Democratic coalition and takes people out of it. It divides the left because the teachers' unions are on one side and all the parents of poor children are on the other and it makes Bill Clinton choose between poor parents and teachers' unions. Paycheck protection [requiring unions to seek workers' permission before funding political activities], sets up union bosses vs. workers. Seventy-five percent of union members are for paycheck protection, but union bosses are against it. So you look for an issue that unites your side, keeps the center right "Leave Us Alone" coalition together, and divides the other side and allows you to reach in to the Democratic coalition and take their hearts out.

A third rule of thumb: Is it important enough that when you win it, you have something? Is it worth the candle? I think ultimately our goal as a center-right coalition should be to reduce the total cost of government in the next 25 years by half, using four measures of the size of government: federal, state and local spending as a percentage of GNP [gross national product]; the regulatory burden as a percentage of GNP; the total employment of people by the government; and assets controlled by the state, generally pension money and land.

Insight: And you think you can cut all this in half in 25 years?

GN: That's one generation. In half is radical, but 25 years makes it reasonable, because you can phase in Social Security as a fully funded system in 25 years. You could see education becoming more effective and more efficient over a 25 year period. One generation includes losing presidential elections, having setbacks, having recessions. I could draw you a picture of how we could do it in six years if I wanted to presume everything worked perfectly. But it doesn't work that way.

Insight: You seem to be more optimistic than other conservatives about the future of the movement. Why is that?

GN: I'm optimistic, I think" because I spend an awful lot of time et the movement level on a lot of different issues. If I worked only one issue, such as right to work -- and we haven't passed right to work since the eighties -- I could get frustrated. But since we work on, both at the federal and the state level, so many different issues, we revel in the successes. If you just look at school choice in Washington, we lost. But we passed it in Minnesota and Arizona, and we're close in Pennsylvania So I see successes at the state level and small successes at the federal level that can be replicated in other fields.

The other thing is I got out of college in 1978. There were two threats to American liberty: the Soviet Union and Washington. One of those is finished.... We now have the opportunity to turn our attention from fighting the Soviet Union and redeploying our assets to reducing the size and scope of the federal government, which is the other threat to our liberties. Frankly, Washington has done more damage than Moscow ever had a chance to -- because Moscow never got over here.

RELATED ARTICLE: Personal Bio

Born: Oct. 19, 1956, in Sharon, Pa.; raised in Weston, Mass.

Education: Bachelor's degree, economics, 1978; M.B.A, 1981; Harvard University.

Career: Executive director, National Taxpayers' Union and College Republicans, 1981. Economist and chief speechwriter, U.S. Chamber of Commerce, 1983-84. Founded Americans for Tax Reform in 1985 and series as president. Norquist is also a Washington lobbyist.

Favorite Movie: Moscow on the Hudson. "A celebration of immigration. It's the most patriotic movie ever made!"

Favorite Book: Paul Johnson's Modern Times.

Hobbies nod Pastimes: "I read murder mysteries, um, [long pause] for fun. During the eighties, l was very active with the Afghan resistance, and in Mozambique and Angola. Did a lot of political training for the Krieble Institute in Europe. I've been to all the Eastern European countries. I've just been to Japan for the founding of Japanese for Tax Reform."

COPYRIGHT 1998 News World Communications, Inc.

COPYRIGHT 2000 Gale Group

66 posted on 06/25/2002 5:42:30 PM PDT by gitmo
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To: summer

68 posted on 06/25/2002 8:05:13 PM PDT by wontbackdown
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To: summer
a person can go to a meeting with people on the right, and talk, and discuss"

Mike McConnell, local host of a Cincinnati morning radio talk show interviewed Ann Coulter Tuesday morning. During the discussion, she discussed the point, (this is paraphrased, of course) -- Conservatives produce ideas that are available for discussion and modification..Liberals merely critisize, assassinate and try to destroy while calling names like juveniles.

It was a great interview!!

77 posted on 06/25/2002 10:22:47 PM PDT by Chu Gary
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To: summer
I'll not only bump this again, I'm going to re-send it in another mass email so even more people will read about it.
82 posted on 06/27/2002 4:32:33 AM PDT by backhoe
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To: summer
Funny ....

I did a search for "right-wing" in the dnc's hate-filled screaming diatribe above ... and found it repeated about every senetece.

It is sobering (but informative) to see that much hatred from teh "tolerant" left-wingers....

So blantant that even the socialist green party writer pointed their hatred out in scathing terms!
96 posted on 06/27/2002 10:25:14 AM PDT by Robert A Cook PE
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To: SpookBrat; not-alone; livius; Kryptonite; jalisco555; seekthetruth; Joe Boucher; Amore; ...
Hi, I thought you might enjoy this thread here! :)
100 posted on 06/27/2002 2:36:00 PM PDT by summer
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To: summer; BOBTHENAILER; ~EagleNebula~; cake_crumb; JulieRNR21; 3D-JOY; Joe Brower
I think this is a great find. To see the dems state something like "do you know who you are dealing with" i.e. Christians, lawful gun owners, etc. Ralph Nader has said repeatedly since the 2000 elections that he will continue to be green.

Apparently, it's not easy being green, maybe because the dems are checking their inside polls and THEY SEE THEY ARE LOSING GROUND - except with Katie Couric, of course!

What to do? As usual, make wild accusations.

101 posted on 06/27/2002 2:50:00 PM PDT by floriduh voter
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