Posted on 06/25/2002 1:20:13 PM PDT by Johnny Shear
This is an honest question, no offense towards anyone is intended...
I won't try to claim I'm any kind of scholar on the subject of Isreal Settlements but I have done a bit of research on the subject. Yet, one question still remains...
I can't justify the Isreal Settlements in The West Bank and Gaza...In my own mind, anyway...
As far as I can tell, Isreal officially justifies these settlements based on the fact that they lay claim to Gaza and the West Bank due to defeating Arab aggressors in the 1967 war. And, Isreal is still technically at war with some Arab states so they can continue occupying these areas...
What I don't understand is how they justify the settlements. Occupation is one thing (Based on protecting themselves against an aggressor) but settlements are something completely different (In my opinion, anyway).
If anyone can educate me, I know Freepers can. And as a bonus, if anyone can supply information or sources on how the Palestinians "See Things", that would be great. (In the spirit of "Two sides to every story").
#2 It's a 'free' country, indigenous people should be able to live where they choose.
In point of fact, it was ours for the taking.
Aint we nice?
We were in control of Japan (Germany too BTW) until they demonstrated themselves capable of civilized, democratic self-rule. The occupation of Germany and Japan by NATO lasted 30 years at least, and we still have military installations there.
It went something like this:
United Nations Resolution to Divide Palestine:
On November 29, 1948, the United Nations passed UN Resolution 181 to partition Palestine between the Palestinian People who owned 94.4% of the land of Palestine and the Jews who owned 5.6% of the land of Palestine.
The above-mentioned Resolution gave 55% of the total land that was owned by the Palestinian people to the Jews.
The Jews went beyond the 55% of the land. At the end of the British ruling, armed Jewish gangs through killings, massacres, and ethnic cleansing were able to occupy about 77% of the total area of Palestine.
The rest of Palestine "the West Bank and Gaza" were occupied June 5, 1967. This put the whole land of Palestine under occupation.
Learn this and remember it; all land is owned by whoever is strong enough to take it and strong enough to keep it. Also, learn that the correct spelling is Israel.
A little more detail:
The Palestine problem became an international issue towards the end of the First World War with the disintegration of the Turkish Ottoman Empire. Palestine was among the several former Ottoman Arab territories which were placed under the administration of Great Britain under the Mandates System adopted by the League of Nations pursuant to the League's Covenant (Article 22) .
All but one of these Mandated Territories became fully independent States, as anticipated. The exception was Palestine where, instead of being limited to "the rendering of administrative assistance and advice" the Mandate had as a primary objective the implementation of the "Balfour Declaration" issued by the British Government in 1917, expressing support for "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people".
During the years of the Palestine Mandate, from 1922 to 1947, large-scale Jewish immigration from abroad, mainly from Eastern Europe took place, the numbers swelling in the 1930s with the notorious Nazi persecution of Jewish populations. Palestinian demands for independence and resistance to Jewish immigration led to a rebellion in 1937, followed by continuing terrorism and violence from both sides during and immediately after World War II. Great Britain tried to implement various formulas to bring independence to a land ravaged by violence. In 1947, Great Britain in frustration turned the problem over to the United Nations.
After looking at various alternatives, the UN proposed the partitioning of Palestine into two independent States, one Palestinian Arab and the other Jewish, with Jerusalem internationalized (Resolution 181 (II) of 1947). One of the two States envisaged in the partition plan proclaimed its independence as Israel and in the 1948 war expanded to occupy 77 per cent of the territory of Palestine. Israel also occupied the larger part of Jerusalem. Over half the indigenous Palestinian population fled or were expelled. Jordan and Egypt occupied the other parts of the territory assigned by the partition resolution to the Palestinian Arab State which did not come into being.
In the 1967 war, Israel occupied the remaining territory of Palestine, until then under Jordanian and Egyptian control (the West Bank and Gaza Strip). This included the remaining part of Jerusalem, which was subsequently annexed by Israel. The war brought about a second exodus of Palestinians, estimated at half a million. Security Council resolution 242 (1967) of 22 November 1967 called on Israel to withdraw from territories it had occupied in the 1967 conflict.
In 1974, the General Assembly reaffirmed the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people to self-determination, national independence and sovereignty, and to return. The following year, the General Assembly established the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People. The General Assembly conferred on the PLO the status of observer in the Assembly and in other international conferences held under United Nations auspices.
Events on the ground, however, remained on a negative course. In June 1982, Israel invaded Lebanon with the declared intention to eliminate the PLO. A cease-fire was arranged. PLO troops withdrew from Beirut and were transferred to neighboring countries after guarantees of safety were provided for thousands of Palestinian refugees left behind. Subsequently, a large-scale massacre of refugees took place in the camps of Sabra and Shatila.
In September 1983, the International Conference on the Question of Palestine, which was widely attended, adopted inter alia the Geneva Declaration containing the following principles: the need to oppose and reject the establishment of settlements in the occupied territory and actions taken by Israel to change the status of Jerusalem, the right of all States in the region to existence within secure and internationally recognized boundaries, with justice and security for all the people, and the attainment of the legitimate, inalienable rights of the Palestinian people.
In December 1987, a mass uprising against the Israeli occupation began in the occupied Palestinian territory (the intifadah). Methods used by the Israeli forces during the uprising resulted in mass injuries and heavy loss of life among the civilian Palestinian population.
A Peace Conference on the Middle East was convened in Madrid on 30 October 1991, with the aim of achieving a just, lasting and comprehensive peace settlement through direct negotiations along 2 tracks: between Israel and the Arab States, and between Israel and the Palestinians, based on Security Council resolutions 242 (1967) and 338 (1973) (the "land for peace" formula). A series of subsequent negotiations culminated in the mutual recognition between the Government of the State of Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization, the representative of the Palestinian People, and the signing by the two parties of the Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements in Washington, D.C., on 13 September 1993, as well as the subsequent implementation agreements, which led to several other positive developments, such as the partial withdrawal of Israeli forces, the elections to the Palestinian Council and the presidency of the Palestinian Authority, the partial release of prisoners and the establishment of a functioning administration in the areas under Palestinian self-rule. The involvement of the United Nations has been essential to the peace process, both as the guardian of international legitimacy and in the mobilization and provision of international assistance.
The UN General Assembly welcomed the Declaration of Principles as an important step forward. The Assembly also reaffirmed that "the United Nations has a permanent responsibility with respect to the question of Palestine until the question is resolved in all its aspects in a satisfactory manner in accordance with international legitimacy."
During the past years, there has been increasing concern at the stalemate in the peace negotiations. The General Assembly, particularly the Assembly’s Tenth Emergency Special Session, was called upon to deal with the deteriorating situation in the occupied Palestinian territory. There has been increasing alarm at acts of violence against civilians, the position and actions of the Government of Israel with regard to Jerusalem, the expansion of settlements, land confiscation and punitive collective measures which were seriously undermining the peace efforts.
This problem of mine that you pointed-out is something I've learned to just live with...
LOL!! I mean REALLY!!! How many times have I seen Israel spelled on this forum? One Thousand? At LEAST??? And I STILL get it wrong???
As an example is the word "Neccisary". I've used that word untold amount of times...And I've looked it up in order to spell it correctly (When I REALLY want to) but still, I just CAN'T remember how to spell it. I know there are C's and S's in there, and one of them is double, but for the life of me, I just CAN'T remember the correct spelling.
Just something hard-wired, I guess...
We chose not to. But, if you are familiar with post war Japan, you will know that our influence and our direction in the area of what Japan would become were extremely "weighty" shall we say.
In my earlier post, I also spoke of defensive considerations. There was not over-riding self preservation defensive consideration for us to do so with Japan. There most certainly is with Israel's situation.
Anyhow, hope that clarifies my position on that point.
FRegards.
You neglected to mention the British giving 70% of the original Palestine Mandate to the Hashemites to make up for giving the Arabian peninsula to the Saud clan, then giving the Jews 55% of what was left over.
Those that call themselves "Palestinian" are a mish mash of people from different countries many of whom flocked to Israel for jobs, like as happened in South Africa. Very few that call themselves Palestinian, are really native to that area. Now they want, what they did not build, as happened in South Africa and is happening here among a few. In fact it is more than that, Muslims can't stand the thought of a nation in their midsts that does not worship Allah, and feel it shows the world that Allah is weak for a son of Isaac to take up residence in their midsts.
That area was almost deserted when the Jews began to arrive after WW2, they purchased land that was already legally theirs, given to them by Britian, who had every right to divide their conquered land any way they chose. Instead of just taking what was theirs they purchased land from the people that were present. These people are Jordanian, Jordan eventually gave up the area known as trans-Jordan. Those that did not sell, conspired with surrounding Arab nations to shove the Jews into the sea, Jordon and Syria, invited these Jordanians to move to into camps until this war was completed. They lost, in fact they lost three times. The last time they lost, Israel had conquered the oil fields in Egypt, Jordan, and most of Syria, The United Nations, stepping in where it did not belong, carved out the West Bank and Gaza for the "Palestinians" and demanded it be returned to the refugees. The U.N. and the USofA, shamefully demanded that Israel return the land they conquered to Jordan, Syria, and Egypt. Many people poured into the area, some came from Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Jordon, Syria, poor people looking for the good salaries that Israel pays. Those are the people there now calling themselves Palestinian.
The Jordanians calling themselves Palistinian vacated the land, moved into camps and waited for the war to be won, it never happened, Israel conquered the land, it is theirs to build on or burn in my opinion. I think the Israeli government, and the President is wrong to even talk about a Palestinian state, it should never happen, unless of course they want Israel to end up like South Africa.
God is even more on the side of well trained, disciplined battalions :)
And let us not forget, every arab nation is governed by a central authority with absolute dictatorial control vested in the person of a single paramount ruler.
And every arab nation is dedicated to the extermination of the Jewish people, every man, woman and child.
Of course the last thing this arrangement, in place in every islamic nation on the planet, will be called what it is in the media.
The fuhrer system.
It's there's to do with as they wish.
If the Pallies want it, they must jump through hoops to get it.
I didn't place conditions. I simply stated that I understand the "Biblical Reasoning" but am not interested in it because...
1) As stated, I understand that part of all this.
2) I don't buy it. I think the bible is a wonderful novel...Too many different religions for it to be the "One true word". According to "Evangelical Christians", Catholics (Amongst other wonderful God Fearing Peoples) are wrong and will burn in hell. I simply can't accept that as fact.
But that's just one man's opinion.
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