(Vanity) Explain to me why it's "OK" for Israel to have settlements on The West Bank?

My Mind ^ | June 25th, 2002 | Johnny Shear

[Johnny Shear]

This is an honest question, no offense towards anyone is intended...

I won't try to claim I'm any kind of scholar on the subject of Isreal Settlements but I have done a bit of research on the subject. Yet, one question still remains...

I can't justify the Isreal Settlements in The West Bank and Gaza...In my own mind, anyway...

As far as I can tell, Isreal officially justifies these settlements based on the fact that they lay claim to Gaza and the West Bank due to defeating Arab aggressors in the 1967 war. And, Isreal is still technically at war with some Arab states so they can continue occupying these areas...

What I don't understand is how they justify the settlements. Occupation is one thing (Based on protecting themselves against an aggressor) but settlements are something completely different (In my opinion, anyway).

If anyone can educate me, I know Freepers can. And as a bonus, if anyone can supply information or sources on how the Palestinians "See Things", that would be great. (In the spirit of "Two sides to every story").

[Sloth]

All well and good. Let the Israelis and Palestinians settle it. They don't need my tax dollars to do it.

BUMP

[E Rocc]

In Hebron, 20% of the city is under Israeli occupation in order to protect 400-700 Jewish squatters.

Please explain how one can be a "squatter" in one's own country...

Even though you are attempting to stipulate the point under debate, the answer is easy. If one attempts to, for example, set up living quarters in an empty office in the Empire State Building without paying rent, one is squatting...despite being in one's own country.

-Eric

[Alouette]

For a self-described "libertarian conservative" you do an astonishing job of parroting the same old, same old Arab nazi lies smearing the Jews of Yesha. "Their towns are not targetted by the IDF when there is trouble." Well duh. Who goes around shooting babies in the head and hurling cinder blocks through the windshields of cars?

[Gurn]

'Scuse me, Mr. Arab Apologist, but can you tell me what a "Palestinian" is? What's the difference in ethnicity between this mythical "Palestinian" and, say, a Jordanian? I was under the impression that they were all ethnic Arabs.

Can you tell me who owned the "West Bank" before 1967? Oh, that's right! It was Jordan, wasn't it? How come Jordan isn't screaming to high heaven to get its property back? One other question. Who was it who tried to kill King Hussein in 1970?

[FreeAtlanta]

The more scary thought (and just around the corner) will be Mexicans trying to reclaim Texas and California (taken in war, aka. occupied). I know there are many who want to do this. I guess they believe that those areas won't become Mexican Hell Holes if they were to revert to Mexico? Maybe they think that Mexico is a pit because they didn't have Texas and California? lol... but in a very nervous way.

[Alouette]

If one attempts to, for example, set up living quarters in an empty office in the Empire State Building without paying rent, one is squatting...

Your analogy doesn't work. For one thing, nobody lives rent or mortgage free on the West Bank, unless it is the Arabs.

[SteamshipTime]

Israel did not exist from 70 A.D. until 1948. During that entire time, the region was of no more concern to us than Greenland. Now, the U.S. government takes $4B a year from its citizens, many of whom do not support this unconstitutional use of their tax dollars, to fund Israel in a religious/tribal dispute that does not concern us. Having brought this fight to our homes, the government now wants many billions more of our tax dollars to protect us from it. It's an extortionate racket and you've fallen for it completely.

[SteamshipTime]

Educate me. Did Sirhan ever declare for the Palestinian cause? Was he protesting the 1968 Democratic Presidential nominee's support for Israel? If so, you've proven my point. If we maintained strict neutrality, this dispute would no more concern us than the one between the Hutus and the Tutsis.

[faintpraise]

It's the usual justification for conquest: Might Makes Right.

[Steve0113]

757's had not yet been invented.

Any large aircraft fully loaded with fuel would have accomplished the same result. The 757's were just handy.

Remember, the WTC towers withstood the impacts. It was the fires that caused them to collapse.

[Windsong]

"If you are a Biblical believer, as Jews and Christians are..."

Except that God will know acknowledge those Jews that reject Christ as their Savior. That one minute detail makes all the difference in Eternity. ANY believer that follows Christ is a Jew in God's eyes. Being a Jew isn't regulated to your genetic code. Its regulated on where your faith lies. If you reject Jesus as the Son of God, you wont be going to Heaven. Jesus said he would reject ANYONE who rejected Him. I.E. "He who rejects ME also rejects the Father". So to say we are one and the same with the Jews is a gross miscalulation. Its like saying that Mormons and Jehavahs Witnesses are OK with God, bc they acknowledge the New Testament in some way shape or form.

[Windsong]

"I don't buy it. I think the bible is a wonderful novel...Too many different religions for it to be the "One true word". According to "Evangelical Christians", Catholics (Amongst other wonderful God Fearing Peoples) are wrong and will burn in hell. I simply can't accept that as fact."

So said J.R.R. Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, John Clayton, etc etc.

Far greater men than you have attempted to disown God's words and have later changed their minds (i.e. Apostle Paul: "No other name is given unto men for salvation except that which is in Jesus Christ").

Then again, in the end God may say to you "Thy will be done", whilst you cringe at the sight of Him muttering "but...but..but.."

[SandfleaCSC]

He was arrested with pro-Palestinian literature on his person and some was found later in his boarding room. Also at the time of his arrest, a clipped newspaper article by RFK that was pro-Israeli was found in his shirt pocket. The info is available at www.crimelibrary.com. It's been a pleasure educating you today, feel free to ask anytime.

[AppyPappy]

Except the mormons and jw's are not mention specifically as having a Covenant with God that will not expire. The Jews do.

[BJungNan]

My answer to your question is, what would you do?
1. Imagine you are sitting in your back yard and your neighbor decides to attack you, start a war. His intent is to capture your property. You rise up and fight back. When the dust clears, you have not only successfully defended your property but also during the battle managed to take control of your neighbors land. In this example, you are the Israal. After the battle, do you give the land back to your neighbor? If he had won, would he have given the land he took back to you?

2. Imagine your neighbor has now sworn to kill you, your children, everyone in your family and anyone that looks like you. He makes these threats continually, teaches his children to hate you and occassionaly sends one of his teenage sons into your yard to kill himself and one of your children.

Now, you have this piece of land between you and him that makes it more difficult for him to carry out his threats of your extinction and the other hostile acts he perpetrates from time to time. It is a buffer between you and him. Do you give it back?

[Gurn]

And until 1945, the United States couldn't fairly be considered a superpower, and its international interests were far different than they would be from the second half of the 20th century to the present. Using your framework, Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia weren't strategic concerns for us, pre-1948, to the extent they are today.

many of whom do not support this unconstitutional use of their tax dollars

Please cite me the passage in the Constitution, or any precedent, that makes foreign aid unconstitutional. Hint: you can't.

The government "brought this fight to our homes", huh? You know, I keep getting the impression that you think we should sell Israel out, to placate the Muslims who want the Jews, and our way of life, destroyed. Is Neville Chamberlain one of your anscestors?

[gdani]

It's the usual justification for conquest: Might Makes Right.

Which a lot of people on this thread apparently agree with -except, perhaps, when it's a situation such as Iraq & Kuwait.

[Gurn]

I sincerely appreciate the thoughts in your post. A serious question: Do you contend that God's Covenant with the Jews expired at some point? If so, can you direct me to the passage of Scripture that supports that contention? Thanks.

[lasereye]

What I don't understand is why don't we ever hear about the land isreal took BEFORE the 1967 War?

I think Israel lost land overall in the 1948 war. Is that what you're referring to? I'm not an expert on the pre and post 1948 war borders. They may have captured a few areas that weren't part of the UN mandate, but they must have been so small as to be meaningless and in any event since they lost some other land, nobody could make an issue of it anyway.

[faintpraise]

Which a lot of people on this thread apparently agree with -except, perhaps, when it's a situation such as Iraq & Kuwait.

Might Makes Right also applied to that conflict. Iraq was forced out of Kuwait by the superior might of the American-led forces of Desert Storm.