It doesn't just belong to Jim anymore, it belongs to everyone who donates their hard-earned money to keep it afloat.Sort of a cyber-populist version of eminent domain, and coming from a libertarian no less! I think I have seen it all
Let's consider the example of a college. Let's say the school accepts some scholarships given by the federal government. You know what happens eventually? Of course you do. The government eventually starts putting conditions on the money. Many schools decide they need the money and capitulate. But you know what? Colleges that decide to not accept any of the money don't have to.
But you want to take it one better! You want to be more oppressive than the federal government even. If ever money was accepted, forever forward the strings bind!
Sheesh.
Any donation given was given to help run the site for the next quarter. Having the assumption that somehow ever having contributed gave you a right to say how the site would be run forever is just plain whacko. It is looney tunes. Frankly, the assumption that making a donation gives you any say in the running of a site like this for any length of time, even the subsequent period is absurd.
You all claim to be proponents of liberty, wanting the freedom to say or do what you want. You have it over there, yet that isn't good enough. You want to force your vision on Jim. You claim to be advocates of liberty but strive to deny Jim the right to use his private property in the way he sees fit, and for Jim to choose to associate with who he wants on his site.
No, what those who are over there but come over here to recruit or badmouth this place want is to deny others their liberties and to try to take Jim's audience. I guess by your bizarre way of thinking, since you participated for a while it is no longer his audience but yours.
Deep down, you know that if you had that audience, it would leave. But that's beside the point.
I look at what the Liberty Forum is, and I see almost an example of demonstrating absurdity by being absurd. I believe if most people were to be shown that site and be told "this is a microcosm of what liberty is like", they would be forever repelled by the idea of liberty. Our founding fathers understood something that appears to have gone right over the head of entirely too many over there, namely that liberty isn't enough. Responsibility and respect are equally important. You guys are poster children against libertarianism with the way you conduct yourselves.
So you and whoever all are cutting down Jim's forum because it isn't more like the Liberty Forum, go there. Do everything out in the open. And those planning on some sort of exodus, if you are planning to go, stop talking about it. Do it! Put your ideas to the test. Walk out and go somewhere else and see what happens. See which way of doing things works better, both in growth and in influence on our governance. The cyber equivalent of federalism. If your way is better than the way Jim has chosen, then more power to you. Forgive me if I don't participate. I don't believe in giving my validation to racists, anarchists, neo-nazis, and general malcontents by my participation in a group with them.
But when you do go, just keep this in mind. The Nazis came to power in Germany not through governmental edicts, but rather by behind the scenes schemings, intimidation tactics (while accusing others of using them), infringing on the property rights of others, and plenty of propaganda. One "side" in this is acting that way. One side isn't.
I look at what the Liberty Forum is, and I see almost an example of demonstrating absurdity by being absurd. I believe if most people were to be shown that site and be told "this is a microcosm of what liberty is like", they would be forever repelled by the idea of liberty.I wonder if they would allow me to participate on their forum - if I remained civil (of course).
I'll bet not.
It's just Liberty for the select few.
Dear Friend Dales,
(I hope I'm still allowed to say friend). What the hell are you talking about? The Email that Jim posted (and subsequently attempted to associate with Liberty Forum) had nothing whatsoever to do with Liberty Forum. It didn't originate there. It wasn't in any way connected with there.
Nobody wants to "steal Jim's audience" (as if that were even possible with rational grown-ups anyway). Nor do they want to "deny Jim his right to associate with others", or anything of the sort.
The fact is that there are many people who openly participate in both websites, and value that participation. Are there a few numbskulls there who whine about FR? Sure. Are there a few numbskulls here who make LF out to be FR's sworn enemy? Sure.
But thankfully such numbskulls are the exception and not the rule. Jim's site is his. He can do with it as he wishes. More power to him. If he wants to ban critics of the GOP because he considers them too harsh, so be it. But he shouldn't be too surprised when people are confused by this, given his previous positions on some of the very same issues.
Clearly he's done a pretty significant about face on the subject of Bush the Younger, and in his younger days, was quite the newshound with respect to unconvential (read tinfoil) sources. But that's his choice. It's his site, so be it.
In any case, the point of this rambling diatribe is that LF is in no way connected to any organized effort to kidnap FR's audience (by any means other than fair and above-board attraction), and there is no association between the Email which started this nonsense and LF.
The big hullabaloo over LF on FR came from Jim and this thread.
Not from LF.
YOU ROCK!!!!!!