Dear Friend Dales,
(I hope I'm still allowed to say friend). What the hell are you talking about? The Email that Jim posted (and subsequently attempted to associate with Liberty Forum) had nothing whatsoever to do with Liberty Forum. It didn't originate there. It wasn't in any way connected with there.
Nobody wants to "steal Jim's audience" (as if that were even possible with rational grown-ups anyway). Nor do they want to "deny Jim his right to associate with others", or anything of the sort.
The fact is that there are many people who openly participate in both websites, and value that participation. Are there a few numbskulls there who whine about FR? Sure. Are there a few numbskulls here who make LF out to be FR's sworn enemy? Sure.
But thankfully such numbskulls are the exception and not the rule. Jim's site is his. He can do with it as he wishes. More power to him. If he wants to ban critics of the GOP because he considers them too harsh, so be it. But he shouldn't be too surprised when people are confused by this, given his previous positions on some of the very same issues.
Clearly he's done a pretty significant about face on the subject of Bush the Younger, and in his younger days, was quite the newshound with respect to unconvential (read tinfoil) sources. But that's his choice. It's his site, so be it.
In any case, the point of this rambling diatribe is that LF is in no way connected to any organized effort to kidnap FR's audience (by any means other than fair and above-board attraction), and there is no association between the Email which started this nonsense and LF.
The big hullabaloo over LF on FR came from Jim and this thread.
Not from LF.
You know that for a fact?? You know for a fact that no members of LF are in any shape, manner or form, responsible for those letters???
You can state that unequivocally???
Not from LF.
Really, it seems a well known brigadier and malcontnent is watching this thread as is if this was the "Truman Show", IMHO.
The Email that Jim posted (and subsequently attempted to associate with Liberty Forum) had nothing whatsoever to do with Liberty Forum. It didn't originate there. It wasn't in any way connected with there.OWK, yes, I consider you a friend. I consider you to be a reasonable guy, and damn fun to debate with at times. I think you were a condescending jerk in your comments about Jim playing a crowd, but seeing as I know the Liberty Forum means something to you, I understood how you might be a bit miffed at this thread. But there is something I do not think you are grasping.
There is no question that the LF has some there who love liberty and, more importantly, understand liberty.
There is also no question that there are people who are at the Liberty Forum who wish to do the very things I talked about. Is it the official Liberty Forum position? No. But is it tolerated by the vast majority of the Liberty Forum participants? Hell yes, and quite encouraged by a few.
When one chooses to associate oneself with a group, that actions of other members of that group impact all in the association. The tolerance of the unacceptable tarnishes all involved.
There's a whole lot of s**t over there. A whole lot. That helps plants grow but on a website all it does is cause people to hold their nose and wonder what the hell is wrong with those around there that they don't clean up their mess, how can they stand the stench. It is ok if that is more your cup of tea and if you don't think it is a stench. That's fine! My objection is to those who keep wanting to bring it here.
Some of them are at the LF. Some others are hitting the emails, trying to set up some sort of organized trouble or exodus (thanks for the email, Vallandigham, but you can take bemused_1@yahoo.com off your mailing list, I am not interested). Some have talked to friends of mine.
Is LF getting much of the brunt of the blame unjustly here? Perhaps. But when the LF has people over there openly talking about how they are going to subvert another's personal property, and the overwhelming response from the other members of the LF is to either cheer or yawn, and there are members of the LF over here on this thread saying "it is no big deal" or "they are right, Jim should capitulate", then I think that it is pretty understandable how that has happened.
And this is more than just the Liberty Forum. Actually, that site is completely incidental to what I consider the crux of this issue, and the majority of my words are not aimed at all of LF; all that is aimed there is that there are consequences (such as a severe PR problem) with accepting the unacceptable from other members.
The majority of my words are aimed at Demidog and carenot who can't seem to grasp the concept of respecting Jim's private property rights, and to Vallandigham and whoever those are who has bought into his shadow campaign, and to cent_scrutinizer, fahey, and all the other malcontents who keep trying to trash this place. They are all enemies of liberty in my estimation, even if they do not intend to be.
They love to throw out the Nazi label at Jim and others, but the label fits more snugly on them.
The good news is that their plans for this site have been made known. The disruptions won't work because people will see through them. The propaganda techniques won't work because people will see through them. And the sudden "spontaneous" uprising they are planning won't turn into a populist tidal wave because eveyone now knows it is planned.
If you don't know who wrote the letter, how do you know it has nothing to do with LF?