Posted on 06/25/2002 3:42:21 AM PDT by Jim Robinson
The following email is being circulated to our members by various disgruntled former FReepers:
Subject: The Future of Our Free RepublicDear Fellow Free Republic Member,
Many of us at Free Republic are distressed by the extraordinary level of censorship that has been so obviously going on. It is very obvious that individual posts, entire threads, and the entire work of members who have been highly regarded are disappearing into a Memory Hole.
Scores of us have organized an e-mail network that is independent of the communication controls presently, and sadly, being used at our Free Republic. We have carefully documented the unmistakeable evidence that most of the posts, threads, and posters that are vaporized completely are overwhelmingly targeted for their political stance on the Right. These are not Leftwingers. These are not even Middle-of-the-Roaders. These are not disruptors. These are not foul-mouthed delinquents. These are fellow patriots on the Right who disagree with the controllers of FR on specific issues that are now hotly debated by the Right. We have documented that FR will parade before you, as if to hide all of the great posters whose work has been destroyed, a straw-man delinquent that has been banned. This is deceptive.
Treating these fellow patriots on the Right so shabbily is not right. As shabbily as those banned into the Memory Hole are being treated, the most shabbily treated of all are all of the good folks on Free Republic themselves. We came here for honest debate. Free Republic advertised itself as a Forum for honest debate. Without that honest debate...everything at Free Republic becomes shabby.
We can do much better. As a measure of how intense the simmering feelings have gotten among members on this unjustifiable use of deleting, censoring, and banning please link to the following thread. You will notice that one simple and sincere plea from one of our finest members has spontaneously touched off a prairie fire of approximately 500 posts in a mere 18 hours. If it isn't Memory Holed this thread may shoot into the thousands.
If you would like to receive anonymous updates of information concerning the hundreds of Freepers who have networked via e-mail to restore the wonderful honest debate to Free Republic, just drop an e-mail of just one or two words if you like for extreme brevity to:
StopCensoringUs@hotmail.com
And, here's that link back to the snowballing thread at FR:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/704701/posts
Thank you so much for giving your thought to this vital matter for our Internet home.
Sincerely, StopCensoringUs@hotmail.com
You can state that unequivocally???
I know for a fact that I saw the Email on yet another alternate forum (having nothing whatsoever to do with LF) a little over a week ago. That was the first I had seen or heard of it. I got the impression it was about a half-dozen disgruntled FR posters who were trying to organize themselves.
I have yet to see it on LF (other than perhaps in fragments discussing Jim's posting of it here).
If it had something to do with LF, it was unbeknownst to me (which would be damned near impossible).
Sorry to spoil your fun... but I don't think this has anything to do with LF.
Pipebombnews made the ex-L.commers stop bashing L.com.
But when they came to FR they really had a party. I enjoyed reading what they had to say.
I can name names, but I ain't going to.
I loved L.com. But then she started banning people that had any thing to say. Unless they were for Bush.
Looks like that is happening here.
I don't want to get zapped or I would name the great posters that have been banned here. They were banned at Trixie's site, too.
Not from LF.
Really, it seems a well known brigadier and malcontnent is watching this thread as is if this was the "Truman Show", IMHO.
Thankfully, YHO doesn't really count for much among the grown-ups.
Are you saying that Clinton's a liar and others are liars?
You can email JimRob and check it yourself if you don't believe me. I did keep my word.
Yup. I agreed. Thank you.
Did Michael Rivero and Clintons a liar also agree? How 'bout Black Jade? You said she posted Marxest posts.
I can assure you..this subject IS NOT by any stretch "FUN"
Whatever, I don't make a political forum the center of my life as you seem to do.
The Email that Jim posted (and subsequently attempted to associate with Liberty Forum) had nothing whatsoever to do with Liberty Forum. It didn't originate there. It wasn't in any way connected with there.OWK, yes, I consider you a friend. I consider you to be a reasonable guy, and damn fun to debate with at times. I think you were a condescending jerk in your comments about Jim playing a crowd, but seeing as I know the Liberty Forum means something to you, I understood how you might be a bit miffed at this thread. But there is something I do not think you are grasping.
There is no question that the LF has some there who love liberty and, more importantly, understand liberty.
There is also no question that there are people who are at the Liberty Forum who wish to do the very things I talked about. Is it the official Liberty Forum position? No. But is it tolerated by the vast majority of the Liberty Forum participants? Hell yes, and quite encouraged by a few.
When one chooses to associate oneself with a group, that actions of other members of that group impact all in the association. The tolerance of the unacceptable tarnishes all involved.
There's a whole lot of s**t over there. A whole lot. That helps plants grow but on a website all it does is cause people to hold their nose and wonder what the hell is wrong with those around there that they don't clean up their mess, how can they stand the stench. It is ok if that is more your cup of tea and if you don't think it is a stench. That's fine! My objection is to those who keep wanting to bring it here.
Some of them are at the LF. Some others are hitting the emails, trying to set up some sort of organized trouble or exodus (thanks for the email, Vallandigham, but you can take bemused_1@yahoo.com off your mailing list, I am not interested). Some have talked to friends of mine.
Is LF getting much of the brunt of the blame unjustly here? Perhaps. But when the LF has people over there openly talking about how they are going to subvert another's personal property, and the overwhelming response from the other members of the LF is to either cheer or yawn, and there are members of the LF over here on this thread saying "it is no big deal" or "they are right, Jim should capitulate", then I think that it is pretty understandable how that has happened.
And this is more than just the Liberty Forum. Actually, that site is completely incidental to what I consider the crux of this issue, and the majority of my words are not aimed at all of LF; all that is aimed there is that there are consequences (such as a severe PR problem) with accepting the unacceptable from other members.
The majority of my words are aimed at Demidog and carenot who can't seem to grasp the concept of respecting Jim's private property rights, and to Vallandigham and whoever those are who has bought into his shadow campaign, and to cent_scrutinizer, fahey, and all the other malcontents who keep trying to trash this place. They are all enemies of liberty in my estimation, even if they do not intend to be.
They love to throw out the Nazi label at Jim and others, but the label fits more snugly on them.
The good news is that their plans for this site have been made known. The disruptions won't work because people will see through them. The propaganda techniques won't work because people will see through them. And the sudden "spontaneous" uprising they are planning won't turn into a populist tidal wave because eveyone now knows it is planned.
If you don't know who wrote the letter, how do you know it has nothing to do with LF?
Some disgruntled FR posters got PO'd over their banishment from FR. (some probably justifiably so, over the actions of the occasional over-zealous moderator).
So they start Emailing each other, trying to organize a gripe campaign. Big deal. I think FR has weathered some far more significant storms that a half-dozen belly-achers.
The problem (if you really want to call it a problem instead of a silly little dust-up) is when somebody took it upon themselves to associate this Email's origins with Liberty Forum (which was simply incorrect).
Then you have to have the big inquisition with all the emotional hysterics, and the droves of butt-kissers and counter-butt-kissers.
Exceedingly silly really.
OMG! And I thought my eye twitched when I thought of my daughter's teen years.
I need some smelling salts.
YOu notice don't you that never discount the MESSAGE of the letter, do they?? They just summarize the reasons it couldn't have come from LF.
Paying to help someone or something is socialist?
Thanks. I didn't know.
Sorry man, but Liberty Forum is attempting to operate on Libertarian principles, and is at least attempting to foster a spirit of free expression. That means that when someone posts something that isn't necessarily approved of by the owner of the board, or isn't held in high regard by the board's participants, it can't just be stuffed down the memory hole... Someone actually has to do the hard work necessary to rebutt it.
Now I understand that FR has the comparative "luxury" of simply flipping a switch and eliminating a poster, and all record of his ever having existed. I'm sure it's quite convenient to be able to do so, and it certainly makes things nice and tidy. But we're trying to do something a little bit different.
You have your method (which obviously pisses some people off) and we have ours (which obviously pisses some people off too).
But the fact is, it's kinda easy (but also kinda lazy) for people who wish to stir up discontent between the two sites, to pick and choose comments which they wish to attribute to the entire board. It's happened to FR before too. You'd think you'd be a bit more sensitive to it.
Sorry if people being allowed to say things that you strongly disagree with makes you uncomfortable. I'd be less than candid if I didn't admit that it made me uncomfortable too. But I grew to accept it, and now I wouldn't want LF any other way. It takes work to have to disect and rebutt dissenting opinion, but if my own ideas are sound, they will withstand any test, and I will learn more about my strengths and weaknesses in the process. In short, truth doesn't need to be shielded... only weak opinions need the protection of the delete button.
Now getting back to LF and FR. There's no reason in the world that they can't coexist peacefully.
Sorry... I keep forgetting about all you Junior G-Men over here with your amazing powers of investigation.
Sheesh...
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