Posted on 06/23/2002 9:26:10 PM PDT by chance33_98
Smoking Ban Hurting Tempe Restaurants
Tempe, June 19 (AP) -- It may be a breath of fresh air to walk into restaurants here and not smell smoke, but restaurant and bar owners say they're smothering.
They are asking the City Council to do something to ease the financial pain arising from the new, restrictive anti-smoking ordinance.
A number of owners say revenue is down by as much as 20 percent since the voter-approved ordinance took effect May 30. They plan to outline their concerns during a council meeting Thursday.
"You can either kill yourself with gloom and doom, or you can take the tack that clean air is far better than dirty air," said Lee Fairbanks, who spearheaded the campaign to restrict smoking. "It's healthy, it's better than sitting in a cloud of cancerous smoke."
Since Tempe voters approved the most stringent smoking ban in the area, police have responded to 38 complaints of smokers in bars and restaurants but issued no citations.
Oh, but I did. If I said ok, I am dodging his question. Would you go over that one again?
"...the "right" to be left alone of others or who advocate enforcing THEIR wishes on others with the threat of the police state to back them up."
Ummmm...that seems to be an argument in favor of the non-smokers.
I could bring in study after study, and you would not accept it.
I doubt you would listen to a study that said the opposite. Which is a shame, considering that is what the majority of the studies show.
Ok, the government decreed that private establishments were closed to minorities. And, it was the private citizens who rose up against the government decrees and opened up those establishments.
When Thomas Jefferson was writing the Declaration of Independence, the original line was "that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of property;".
The delegates thought this to obvious and contentious and Franklin and I believe Madison were drafted to sweet talk Jefferson into changing the wording to, "that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness;".
They agreed that no one would be ignorant enough to ignore property as the foremost right, the linchpin of all free societies.
After reading your illogical rambling, I see that they were wrong.
I'm not following, sorry. I know of some places that are totally non-smoking. Incidentally, I'm not a smoker, so I don't go looking.
If that's your view, I assume you would support an effort to criminalize cigarrettes. If not, I'd certainly like to hear why not.
There you go again............ looking forward to you paying $10 for a hamburger or a bag of chips.
They agreed that no one would be ignorant enough to ignore property as the foremost right, the linchpin of all free societies.
I believe you are correct.
The free use and control of property is the cornerstone of a free society, for without sole control over property, we really have no rights. We would always be on "someone elses property" who can dictate all behavior.
No. I suspect that trying to pass such a law would have the chance of a snowball in hell for openers.
Probably true, but I still assume you'd support such a prohibition, right? Even though it might not be practical to implement right now?
After all, do you think a smoking ban in restaurants had much chance of passing 20 years ago?
Are you being deliberately obtuse or as I'm beginning suspect are you incapable of following logic?
The government was elected by a majority.
The majority of this elected majority passed laws.
These laws made it legal to deprive black citizens of the right to best education their tax money could buy. The laws deprived black veterans from from civil service test bonus points that were awarded to white veterans. The armed services themselves drafted all equally but seperated the races by law until the late 40's.
You say we are all owed courtesy, but we are not. If you want a courtious society, reinstitute duelling (A position I advocate, by the way, as president of The Aaron Burr Memorial Duelling Society).
The law turned attack dogs loose on the Selma marchers, the law stood in the doorways of the schools.
The government owes all citizens equal treatment in the law.
We owe neither the government nor you anything.
In our interactions with our fellow free men we owe it to them not to assault, rob or otherwise harm them. The law exists to adjudicate these situations.
If a group of blacks, whites, blacks and whites, Swahilis, Norwegians, Freemasons, Mossad agents, communists, anarchists, Republicans, or even a Genuine Dyed-In-The -Wool Registered Democrat, want to get together and drink and smoke 'til death do them part, it is simply not the states business.
No, dear. This is all due to some constituency wanting to force their wishes/desires/beliefs on others at threat of fines/imprisonment/death. Once the first steps down the proverbial slippery slope are taken, it is then a much shorter hop on to bigger and more intrusive regulation. Read any Orwell lately? We DID have freedom of association in this Country (until the government stepped in with the equal rights amendment and the ADA). We DID have freedom OF religion (now we have freedom FROM religion). We DID have the best education system in the world - now the nanny-state feds oversee everything and we're near the bottom of the heap. We DID have freedom of speech but "hate-crimes (thoughts)" non-laws took care of that. We DID have private property rights but we are seeing them erroded more and more every day (set back lines, zoning laws, building permits, etc., etc.) and NOW --- now --- nice folks like you want to tell EVERYBODY what they can and cannot do INSIDE property that they own. It never ends!! Literally.
Well, I do too. Business establishments look at the profit line and go where profits are greatest.
Yes, I know that if I present an opposing view, I am rambling. The Constitution does read, Life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. It is too late to change it now to property. Sorry.
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