According to Joe Hadenuf: Official Free Republic Position Parallels GOP On Immigration. No Big Deal

6/23/02 | Joe Hadenuf

[Joe Hadenuf]

Last night during a conversation/debate between myself and the leader/owner of the Free Republic, Jim Robinson, a rather stunning revelation was brought forth. I asked Mr. Robinson, which Republicans were vocally backing, and supporting Tancredo in his fight for our sovereignty? After some delay, Jim answered, “I have no idea. Immigration is not a big concern of mine.”

This is from the man that runs the most well known, and respected, political conservative internet forum in the United States? And Mr. Robinson resides in California?

Below is the exchange

Conservatives, Cut Bush Slack The Chicago Sun-Times | June 22, 2002 | Thomas Roeser

To: Jim Robinson

#939: Oh, so the Republicans are fighting for our sovereignty? Besides Tancredo, which Republicans are these Jim? If you could be specific.

#1034: Which ones are not ?

#1056: You never answered my question Jim.

Since you failed to answer my question, I will go first.

Given thirty years of this open border, immigration "free for all" that has resulted in many millions entering our nation illegally, I believe there are very few Republicans, or anyone else in DC, besides Tancredo, that are visibly and vocally fighting for our national sovereignty.

Now would you care to tell me which Republicans are standing with Tancredo and voicing outrage against this titanic, never ending invasion of illegal aliens?

1056 posted on 6/22/02 11:09 PM Pacific by Joe Hadenuf [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1034 | View Replies | Report Abuse

To: Joe Hadenuf

I have no idea. Immigration is not a big concern of mine.

1109 posted on 6/22/02 11:43 PM Pacific by Jim Robinson [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1056 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

At first I as was stunned, angry, and felt let down. Then after some thought I wasn’t too surprised.

Looking back at all the hundreds of immigration threads where many were deleted, disappeared and sent to the cornfield, I guess I am not too surprised. However, given the gravity and danger this country faces regarding this out of control, titanic immigration issue, I am still outraged, disheartened and saddened by Mr. Robinson’s response. Thread after thread Freepers have displayed genuine outrage and honest concern regarding this issue. And the outrage and insanity regarding this issue goes far beyond the Free Republic.

It’s escalated to the point now where many of our major cities in this country, such as Chicago, have now approved the use of identification cards, issued by Mexican consulates that will give illegal aliens access to financial and public services and more, as our so-called leaders stand treasonously silent, as our sovereignty is slowly dismantled.

This massive invasion of millions of illegal aliens has changed the face of many of our once great cities, from California to Illinois, to Georgia, to Tennessee, to Texas etc etc.

They are crowding our already over crowded classrooms, voting in our elections, choking off our social services, driving down the wages, while driving up our taxes, filling our jails, standing room only in many big city emergency rooms, etc, etc, etc. I personally know of six American citizens that have become victims of illegal alien crime, from having family members slaughtered on our highways by drunk driving illegal aliens, to stabbings, robberies and common burglaries.

And just recently, another young Deputy Sheriff was shot through the face and killed in California by an illegal alien, that has again fled back to the safety of Mexico. It has now been learned that this individual has already been deported three times, each time he has returned and committed more crimes in our country, leaving American victims in his wake, and each time he fled back to the safety of Mexico.

There are many forms of terrorism, and this continued invasion of millions upon millions is one form. And it's my opinion that it’s one of the most dangerous, most threatening issues facing America today. Even today as we speak, our federal government continues to allow in almost 8000 Middle Eastern men a month on visas. It is my opinion that this legal and illegal “immigration free for all” must be, stopped, extremely limited, and reformed immediately!

Again, I am extremely saddened and distressed by Mr. Robinson's response and lack of concern regarding this issue.

[Nick Danger]

Wouldn't it make more sense to encourage immigration from Eastern Europe where you will find highly educated people qualified to take high paying professional jobs and contributing the maximum into FICA?

It might make more sense, but then people would crab about the immigrants taking high-paying jobs. That already happens with the H1-B people... you want a million engineers coming over here? The engineers sure don't. And please do not suggest importing more lawyers.

You're right, for the most part these people are taking entry-level jobs that hardly anybody wants, frequently "off the books" at wages that are too low to print. The year 2030 is a ways off though, and my experience with living in Southern California for most of my life is that the 2nd generation of the arrivals does pretty well. All this talk about resource drains is probably true for the newly-arrived, but please do not tell me that there are not millions of milddle-class Hispanics in California. My family was dirt-poor when they first got over here, too. My old man didn't finish high school. Now I have a big, fast computer and I can talk on the Internet. Whaaat a country.

[Howlin]

Again, I am extremely saddened and distressed by Mr. Robinson's response and lack of concern regarding this issue.

No, you're not. You got to post this nice, shiny thread, didn't you? Is this suppose to be some kind of "alert" for the rest of us?

In case you don't know it, we are ALL entitled to our OWN OPINIONS. What you are doing here is embarassing yourself by whining and saying "Jim doesn't think like I do."

I'm glad you got your own thread though. No everybody can see what a swell Freeper you are.

[Joe Hadenuf]

LOL! Great response.

[Jim Robinson]

I don't know. Maybe Ziglar needs to be deported (to some other line of work). Maybe there are laws that need to be taken off the books. Maybe the whole system needs to be overhauled.

[Dales]

Surely you understand the concept of "is a"?

A Marxist revolutionary is a cynical materialist ideologue.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Joe, what you have done was an attempt at a cheap shot, and not debate tactics at all. But in actuality it has backfired and made you look quite foolish

Thanks, I considered your opinion, and ignored it.

[Joe Hadenuf]

But if States can't make laws that take away unearned subsidies from Illegals, how is it that states can make laws giving them drivers' licenses.

Further, didn't the FedGov dictate to the states regarding licensing with Motor Voter?

Yes they did.

[Torie]

That has nothing to do with party bosses. It has to do with the party system in the Senate itself, and the partisan nature of politics in general. Party discipline in the senate increased with chairmanships ceased to be solely a function of seniority. Prior to that, the level of discipline was minimal. It is all described in Caro's book on LBJ's senate years, which book is in substantial part about the workings of the senate itself, and how they evolved over time since its inception. The popular election of senators had little real impact actually.

[Sabertooth]

The power to regulate immigration is a federal power.

Which is what I said. And it's been interpreted that states can't take away benefits without intruding on that federal authority.

Now I believe that's a rather spurious position, and Gray Davis agrees, or he'd have nothing to fear by letting the #187 appeal go through. But that's where it stand as of now.

So how can states give drivers' licenses to Illegals, which will facilitate their lawbreaking, without also violating that same federal authority?

[Jim Robinson]

I know, but how far does that go? They have the authority to regulate interstate commerce too, but they've stretched that way beyond the founders intents.

[B Knotts]

Maybe Ziglar needs to be deported (to some other line of work).

Heh. :-)

Yeah. I think he'd do good as the head of the faith-based thing or something. We need someone more hard-headed for INS director.

The main concern I have is that right now, we have no idea whatsoever who is coming across the borders. Most are just poor people coming to try to make a buck, but who knows how many al-Qaeda and Abu Sayyaf could be crossing as well.

[Sabertooth]

Well, I'm not so sure about that. Looks to me like the feds are overstepping their bounds (as usual).

If you're of the opinion that the 10th Ammendment is violated routinely, we're in definite agreement.

At the same time, the FedGov does have legitimate Constitutional authority over immigration, so it would seem to me that it could certainly prevent the states from issuing licenses to Illegals, who are in violation of federal law, and with which they can commit a great deal of mischief.

[Torie]

The percentage of immigrants as a whole that are middle class, and take middle class jobs, or if not them due to language barriers, their children do, is higher than you think. I would guess it is close to 50%. And it is not just Asians and European immigrants, or for that matter Middle Eastern immigrants (most of whom are middle class). There is an Hispanic maintenance man at an aparatment complex for which I am the asset manager. He has a college degree from Mexico in architecture. We chat about "abstract" topics all the time.

[Sabertooth]

Well, I'm not so sure about that. Looks to me like the feds are overstepping their bounds (as usual).

If you're of the opinion that the 10th Ammendment is violated routinely, we're in definite agreement.

At the same time, the FedGov does have legitimate Constitutional authority over immigration, so it would seem to me that it could certainly prevent the states from issuing licenses to Illegals, who are in violation of federal law, and with which they can commit a great deal of mischief.

[Texasforever]

Ziglar just took it in the teeth. He was not in on the HSD planning and then he lost the enforcement arm of the INS. His power has been reduced his paper shufflers. Colin Powell is also in a tizzy because the granting of visas will be a shared responsibility with whomever takes over as secretary of the HSD. I look for both Ziglar and Powell to be wanting to “spend more time with their families” in the near future.

[B Knotts]

Well, again, I think we're talking about illegal aliens. We have a political process to determine how many legal immigrants, H1-Bs, "braceros", etc., we wish to admit. It just needs to be done legally, within the system, so that we know who is coming in.

Right now, it's just out of control, particularly in California. B-1 Bob Dornan lost his seat, meaning one less Republican vote in the House, as a result of vote fraud involving illegal aliens. How many seats are we losing nationwide as a result?

We just need to get it under control, and enforce the laws we have. I don't think that's an unreasonable request, especially considering the predicament in which we currently find ourselves.

[B Knotts]

Ziglar just took it in the teeth. He was not in on the HSD planning and then he lost the enforcement arm of the INS.

That's good news! I wasn't sure how that was going to work out, with INS going into the new Dept. of Homeland Security. Like I said above, I think if we just enforce our immigration laws to a reasonable degree, that would satisfy 99% of the people who are concerned about this issue.

[ned]

Maybe. But this is proposing further burdening our already over-burdened private sector with even more federal restrictions and bureaucracy.

Well, I think the first question is whether we really want to curtail illegal immigration. As I mentioned in my prior post, there are entire industries that benefit from the increased supply of labor that illegal immigration represents. In addition, there are folks who oppose restricting immigration on philosophical grounds, believing that the imposition of barriers to the free flow of labor creates inefficient market distortions similar to artificial restraints on the free flow of capital.

But if we ever decide that we really do wish to curtail illegal immigration, I believe it would be a mistake to avoid dealing directly with the market forces which underly it. It seems to me that most illegal immigrants come here in search of employment opportunities that they cannot find at home. I really don't think that many of them are coming here to open new businesses of their own. And American employers who hire illegal immigrants do so in order to reduce costs. I think that the most effective way to curtail immigration would be to take steps designed to raise the costs of these relationships to employers who hire illegal immigrants. If effective penalties are set high enough, the employment of illegal immigrants will become an unprofitable pursuit.

Are you proposing giving the feds even more power than they already have? To allow them to make armed raids on our factories and small businesses? Allow them to suspend the fourth amendment?

I support the Fourth Amendment and if I were to be persuaded that reducing illegal immigration could only come at the cost of the Fourth Amendment, I would be opposed to reducing illegal immigration. And if I could be convinced that the employment of illegal immigrants was typically the result of mistake or inadvertance on the part of employers, I would not think that the imposition of sanctions against employers would be very effective in any event.

I think that we could approach the problem of employing illegal immigrants in the same way that we once approached the problem of sweat shops and the employment of children. It worked.

[Texasforever]

Just the enforcement arm that has been in a chokehold by the "welcome wagon" Management. One of the best things is that the new immigration enforcement entity will link up with the Coast Guard that is also coming under the new department.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Immigrations laws are governed by the Feds, the Dl would be by state. Do you want the FedGov to step in and regulate drivers licenses? I know when their is a conflict between the two, the FedGov laws rule.