According to Joe Hadenuf: Official Free Republic Position Parallels GOP On Immigration. No Big Deal

6/23/02 | Joe Hadenuf

[Joe Hadenuf]

Last night during a conversation/debate between myself and the leader/owner of the Free Republic, Jim Robinson, a rather stunning revelation was brought forth. I asked Mr. Robinson, which Republicans were vocally backing, and supporting Tancredo in his fight for our sovereignty? After some delay, Jim answered, “I have no idea. Immigration is not a big concern of mine.”

This is from the man that runs the most well known, and respected, political conservative internet forum in the United States? And Mr. Robinson resides in California?

Below is the exchange

Conservatives, Cut Bush Slack The Chicago Sun-Times | June 22, 2002 | Thomas Roeser

To: Jim Robinson

#939: Oh, so the Republicans are fighting for our sovereignty? Besides Tancredo, which Republicans are these Jim? If you could be specific.

#1034: Which ones are not ?

#1056: You never answered my question Jim.

Since you failed to answer my question, I will go first.

Given thirty years of this open border, immigration "free for all" that has resulted in many millions entering our nation illegally, I believe there are very few Republicans, or anyone else in DC, besides Tancredo, that are visibly and vocally fighting for our national sovereignty.

Now would you care to tell me which Republicans are standing with Tancredo and voicing outrage against this titanic, never ending invasion of illegal aliens?

1056 posted on 6/22/02 11:09 PM Pacific by Joe Hadenuf [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1034 | View Replies | Report Abuse

To: Joe Hadenuf

I have no idea. Immigration is not a big concern of mine.

1109 posted on 6/22/02 11:43 PM Pacific by Jim Robinson [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1056 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

At first I as was stunned, angry, and felt let down. Then after some thought I wasn’t too surprised.

Looking back at all the hundreds of immigration threads where many were deleted, disappeared and sent to the cornfield, I guess I am not too surprised. However, given the gravity and danger this country faces regarding this out of control, titanic immigration issue, I am still outraged, disheartened and saddened by Mr. Robinson’s response. Thread after thread Freepers have displayed genuine outrage and honest concern regarding this issue. And the outrage and insanity regarding this issue goes far beyond the Free Republic.

It’s escalated to the point now where many of our major cities in this country, such as Chicago, have now approved the use of identification cards, issued by Mexican consulates that will give illegal aliens access to financial and public services and more, as our so-called leaders stand treasonously silent, as our sovereignty is slowly dismantled.

This massive invasion of millions of illegal aliens has changed the face of many of our once great cities, from California to Illinois, to Georgia, to Tennessee, to Texas etc etc.

They are crowding our already over crowded classrooms, voting in our elections, choking off our social services, driving down the wages, while driving up our taxes, filling our jails, standing room only in many big city emergency rooms, etc, etc, etc. I personally know of six American citizens that have become victims of illegal alien crime, from having family members slaughtered on our highways by drunk driving illegal aliens, to stabbings, robberies and common burglaries.

And just recently, another young Deputy Sheriff was shot through the face and killed in California by an illegal alien, that has again fled back to the safety of Mexico. It has now been learned that this individual has already been deported three times, each time he has returned and committed more crimes in our country, leaving American victims in his wake, and each time he fled back to the safety of Mexico.

There are many forms of terrorism, and this continued invasion of millions upon millions is one form. And it's my opinion that it’s one of the most dangerous, most threatening issues facing America today. Even today as we speak, our federal government continues to allow in almost 8000 Middle Eastern men a month on visas. It is my opinion that this legal and illegal “immigration free for all” must be, stopped, extremely limited, and reformed immediately!

Again, I am extremely saddened and distressed by Mr. Robinson's response and lack of concern regarding this issue.

[Joe Hadenuf]

LOL! I got plenty of time Tex, no need for any hurry. I think I am right, but I may be wrong.

[GraniteStateConservative]

However, if you cannot muster enough people to your way of thinking and your attempt to get your candidates elected fails, you do not have the right to take up arms and start blasting away at people.

Hey, everybody, Jim Robinson's a liberal RINO!!! < /sarcasm >

: )

[cynicom]

Jim...

In 1861, quite a few people had a concern over states rights versus a strong federal government. The Federalists won, after half a million Americans died.

What is significant about that affair is that the South adopted for their constitution the original with only a few changes. The one dominant change was that they feared the emergence of professional politicians, thus they wrote term limits into their constitution, with the president having only one six year term. That way he would not be running for re-election his first day in office, as now is the case.

I sometimes think we should have paid more attention to the changes they made, perhaps we would not have this monster of a government.

[DeaconBenjamin]

Seems to me that in the 19th Century, before the 17th amendment, certain senators were known as the Senator for Oil, or for railroads, or for other corporate special interests. Don't get me wrong, I would support repeal of the 17th amendment, but it was first proposed as the answer for the same problem you describe today. Like the Federal Election Campaign Act, efforts to address political corruption legislatively always seem to breed greater political corruption.

[sneakypete]

The gangs shoot to kill, and what will happen when there are more of them than there are of us?

You will leave,or you will die.

[Neets]

Your words, as usual are quite touching..and I look to you as one speaking from experience, hence having more insight on the issues as those ill informed just spewing off for the sake of being heard.

I applaud you my dear.

[Texasforever]

makes them here illegally, even though they might not have started out that way.

Now you are changing the subject as Joe is. All of them entered on valid visas. They didn't need to renew their visas since they were not "planning" to leave the country. You and Joe are now grasping at straws.

[watcher1]

it's not the immigrant who is the problem, it is the liberal give away program. Again, vote out enough of the liberals........

Easier said than done.
We are becoming outnumbered.
The demographics get a little worse for us each day

[DeaconBenjamin]

I haven't taken the time to review all of the answers submitted in this thread, so I'm sorry if I am repeating another's statement. Yes, the 10th amendment would encompass the issuance of drivers licenses, as it would many other areas currently controlled by the feds. However, the issue of granting drivers licenses to illegal aliens may be an exception, as it facilitates such individuals' violation of federal (immigration) laws. I think it is a reasonable reading of the Constitution, and the supremacy clause, to grant the feds the right to preclude states from facilitating the continued violation of immigration laws, since control over immigration was granted to the federal government by the Constitution.

[sweetliberty]

"We've got to somehow take control over the education systems."

Well, thankfully homeschooling is on the uprise and also more parents are finding ways to have their kids educated in schools that are in keeping with their own values. It is wrong that these parents have yet to get any tax breaks when they elect these options. It seems that the government has no intention of loosening its grasp on power over the public school system and that is unfortunate. I am glad to see that more parents are circumventing the government schools. I would like to see it happen to the extent that the public school system would implode, but I think that is unlikely. What concerns me in the face of this trend though, is that the government will actually try to find a way to prevent alternative education in the interest of furthuring it's own agenda which needs to be supported by the ignorance being bred there in order to assure its survival. Of course this is predominantly yet another problem caused and perpetuated by liberals, but its pervasiveness keeps it alive as an issue for both sides, and as long as that is the case, it seems to me that there is little motivation to change it.

[Dales]

Are you suggesting that the 17th amendment did what it proported, but only recently did something change and make it so that the beneficial effects of the 17th were overwhelmed and we are now worse off when it comes to the impact of money and special interests? If you have some data to back that up, I would like to see it.

In any case, the 17th Amendment did not accomplish for what it was sold to the people as a fix. It was, at best, useless, and at worst, subversive. After all, it is cheaper and easier to buy one man than it is to buy an entire state legislature, and if it can be done legally (with campaign donations or via indirect influence with issue ads), all the better. That is why direct elections did in fact lead, IMO, to an increase in the corruptive influence of money and special interests.

In general, governance works best when the power is pushed closer to home.

You are probably right that it never will happen. However, it could happen with the right efforts. State legislatures might be amendable to supporting it, since it would be a power grab for them. Using the campaign finance arguments honed by McCain, it could be possible to spin this move away from direct democracy in a populist manner. And since the progressives would fight this tooth and nail, an effort to do this would put them on the defensive for once, causing them to spend money to defeat something instead of them spending money to expand the socialist state.

[sneakypete]

Since JR is not a racist, immigration is not a huge concern of his.

RW,I know you are a young man still in high school,but you REALLY need to get a little more life experience and think a little more carefully before you go making grand pronouncements about people concerned with illegal immigration being racists.

[Jim Robinson]

Well, I know it cannot be done if you sit on your hands on election day. Take my words literally, Vote out the Liberals.

[Texasforever]

If you want to track the migration of the illegals that come here for freebies. Look at the states that have very generous welfare payments. That is something states can do and should do. Texas has its share of illegals but they are the ones that work because Texas in the bottom five states when it comes to welfare pay-outs. California has the opposite problems
along with the northeastern welfare meccas.

[Bowana]

Oh, so none of the 9/11 terrorist were in this country illegally? I could have sworn several were here on expired visas.

Yes Joe, several were here illegally!

Flight 11

Waleed Alshehri: Appears to have been in illegal status on September 11 ILLEGAL

Wail M. Alshehri: INS is unable to find any record relating to this name Possibly Illegal

Satam M.A. Al Suqami: INS is unable to find any record relating to this name ILLEGAL

Mohamed Atta: Appears to have been in illegal status on September 11 ILLEGAL

Abdulaziz Alomari: Identity is in dispute/ Appears to have been in legal status on September 11 Possibly Illegal

Flight 93

Saeed Alghamdi: Identity is disputed/ INS is unable to confirm any relating record based on current information available Possibly Illegal

Ahmad Ibrahim A. Al Haznawi: Admitted as a nonimmigrant visitor in June 2001 and was in legal status on September 11

Ahmed Alnami: Appears to have been in legal status on September 11

Ziad Samir Jarrah: Appears to have been in legal status on September 11

Flight 175

Marwan Al-Shehhi: Appears to have been in legal status on September 11

Fayez Banihammad: INS is unable to confirm any relating record based on current information available Possibly Illegal

Ahmed Alghamdi: Appears to have overstayed his authorized time in the United States before September 11 Possibly Illegal

Hamza Alghamdi: INS is unable to confirm any relating record based on current information available Possibly Illegal

Mohand Alshehri: INS is unable to confirm any relating record based on current information available Possibly Illegal

Flight 77

Khalid Almihdhar: Appears to have been in legal status on September 11

Majed Moqed: Appears to have been in legal status on September 11

Nawaf Alhazmi: Appears to have overstayed his authorized time in the United States before September 11 Possibly Illegal

Salem Alhazmi: May be a a stolen identity/ Appears to have been in legal status on September 11 Possibly Illegal

Hani Hanjour: INS is unable to determine at this time whether this subject was in legal status on September 11 Possibly Illegal

3 out of 19 WERE ILLEGAL!

10 out of the remaining 16 were possibly Illegal.

6 out of 19 appear to have been legally in this country.

13 out of 19 of the terrorist hyjackers were illegal or possibly illegal according to the INS. 3 of the terrorists were here illegally and 10 INS isn't sure and this isn't an issue?

Oer half of the terrorists that committed this atrocity may have been here illegally, so possibly half of the terrorists left in this country are probably illegal as well. Too bad the INS doesn't know!

From CNN:
War Against Terror-MAPS AND INTERACTIVES INDEX

[mo]

The immigration issue says more about us as a nation than any other issue. It is a purely business issue. It is the consequence of the growth and evolution of the welfare state which demands workers to turn the tax wheels. At the current population level by 2010 the worker/beneficiary ratio is 3:1, by 2030, 1.5/1. The consequence is domestic turmoil unless more workers are created i.e. imported. Why this? Abortion. 45 million since 1973. those that would have been alive to support their elders. Mexico, a Roman Catholic country, has 70 million people under age 30. As a consequence of our hedonism we have lost our sovereignity within ONE GENERATION. I am no fan of open immigration. Yet the facts are such that it is a pure, logical business inevitability. While I cannot pretend to speak for Mr. Robison, I suspect he sees the same.

[cynicom]

sweet....

I went to school so far back that the Federal government was not involved at all and the states were only marginally involved. The states set down guidelines and a few regulations. The local schoolboards ran the schools. Now after over 50 years of Federal intervention can anyone really say that education has improved?

If one takes into account the money spent now versus my time, the students now would never have to go to college. Instead the colleges have to have remedial courses because the students are not prepared. Back then also, if you got out of line you got whacked, that helped a lot in learning.

[GraniteStateConservative]

Perhaps if we stopped killing off generation after generation of the unborn there would be enough adults to support those who opted for Social Security and by doing some privatizing of social security as an options, there would be less with need.

Tabitha Soren, please pick up the white courtesy phone in the lobby.

[Cultural Jihad]

Now you've gone and done it! Why not engrave an invitation to Planned Parenthood? It reaches the same person.

[Texasforever]

When was that list published? I cannot fffind it on the link.