"THAT which you believe"---"An open letter to Republicans"

6/23/02 | redrock

[redrock]

"This is free ground. All the way from here to the Pacific Ocean. No man has to bow. No man born to royalty. Here we judge you by what you do, not by who your father was. Here you can be something. Here's a place to build a home. It isn't the land--there's always more land. It's the idea that we all have value, you and me, we're worth something more than the dirt. I never saw dirt I'd die for, but I'm not asking you to come join us and fight for dirt. What we're all fighting for, in the end, is each other."

What is it that you believe???

A real question....since so many times on this forum, and others, the Republican 'mantra' has become a simple one.

Defeat the Democrats..whatever the cost..the Democrats are the enemy...(sort of Orwellian in it's simplicity)..repeated time after time...and anyone who dares to ask questions of George Bush's policies and actions is loudly shouted down.

But here's a 'news flash' for ya.......It may be that the Democratic Senators...Representitives.....leaders ARE the enemy of maintaining a Constitutional Republic.

But...the average member of the Democratic Party...is not.

The average member of the Democratic Party is just brainwashed..(for want of a better word)...

Just like the average member of the Republican Party is in danger of becoming.

"This is a party, this Republican Party, a Party for free men, not for blind followers, and not for conformists. "

So..I'll ask my very simple questions once again......

And Republicans who wish to rant and rave about 'third party' this or that...go right ahead.

But George W. Bush barely won the last election.....

You NEED staunch conservatives ( nowadays I guess we would be considered 'radical'.....) to help re-elect him....and others of the party..

CONVINCE us.........that at a certain point you will be willing to fight for 'old time values'.....

CONVINCE us ...that you have not become slavish followers of GWB...in much the same way as some did with Clinton....that you will ask the 'hard questions' (and demand the answers).

CONVINCE us.......and you will not do so by the constant dismissal of our very real concerns.

CONVINCE us.......

-----------------

So where do we 'draw the line'????

Should we elect rapists or murderers...if they are members of the Republican Party..and could 'help retake the Senate'???

At what point do you say 'this far and no further'???

Must every single American 'prostitute' themselves in order for one political party (one which on CLOSE examination is no different than the other one) to 'control' government???

I have certain values and beliefs...based upon my Belief in God.

Should I just throw those Beliefs and Values away...and close my eyes....just so the Republicans can win???

The basis of this Nation is a hardcore belief that the values and ideals (sorry to use that word..ideals...seems that word anymore has the same effect on Republicans as a Cross does to evil) that founded this Nation are important....

[biffalobull]

As adults we should be able to put the animosity behind us and discuss issues on point. If you disagree, simply say I disagree. You don't have to say, you f----- a----ole, you're an idiot. Just say you disagre.

Doughty:

You couldn't have said it better.

It seems to me, that in the last few years, FR.has been subjected to the Napoleanic Principle.

Divide and Conquer.

Why is it that when we are supposedly all on the same side we have to debase ourselves by calling each other names.

This is exactly what the enemy would like to see us do.

Regards

[Bullish]

It may be that the Democratic Senators...Representitives.....leaders ARE the enemy of maintaining a Constitutional Republic.

But...the average member of the Democratic Party...is not.

The average democrat has no idea what a Constitutional Republic is, it's like their leaders work to blindfold and inveigle them on every issue. The democrat leaders are accomplished liars that would make Stalin proud. Average democrats are uninvolved in politics, and therefore can be easily fooled.

[broomhilda]

If we could ever cut out the waste and cut the number of people employed maybe it would not be such a bureaucratic nightmare. Can you imagine 50 different systems in each state? and you talk about bureaucratic now?

[Jefferson Adams]

I am sure the next parole hearing will go better.

Funny. Truly. But I was being serious. I DO want my freedom back. And it's not going to happen by virtue of either "Party" - Socialist Party D or Socialist Party R - being in power.

Essentially, the Republicans are now philosophically where the Democrats were a few decades ago. The Dems are where the Communists were those same few decades ago. And where the Republicans were back then, there are only a few of us standing around listening to a sound remarkably like a wind blowing through a ghost town.

[Jefferson Adams]

The average democrat has no idea what a Constitutional Republic is,...

Precisely. Unfortunately, neither does the average Republican.

[ImpBill]

Hmmmmmmm, don't know what tripped your trigger. Did I suggest that other people leave the party? Did I suggest you do anything? No.

I simply replied to someone I respect and admire on this forum as to my actions and for some reason you were compelled to take issue with my choice of action. Oh well, I think that is your prerogative as well. But you really didn't need to give me a history lesson. I think I knew the circumstances involved at the "Impeachment Trial" that wasn't. And the GOP sure gave the DemocRATs the cover they needed by not having a real trial, with real evidence and real witnesses where the DemocRATs would have had to stand in the kitchen and take the heat for supporting a President that subverted the law, perjured himself, and suborned others to perjury. Heck they didn't have to as we had a Republican Majority leader that gave them all the cover they needed.

Of course the odds are there would have never been a conviction as the numbers to convict weren't there, but hey we will never really know as there was never really any trial. Majority Leader Lott made sure of that and was backed by a majority of the GOP Senators.

But thanks for your pithy remarks, jack!

[helper]

I couldn't have said it better, except I didn't vote for RP, I kept the faith. But now I am not so sure. If there was ever a chance to wake up the sheeple, expose the slime that went on for 8 years GWB sure has the evidence. But does the J.D. do anything? Is any Repub going up against T.D. It really does look like the "Powerfull protect each other" ?

I learned a few months ago that a baby boom is hitting 18 over the next 5 years, who do you think has trained them over the last 12 years, and what party line is going to attract them?

I think we have let the Dems chip away without a fight, and exposure for so long that it will take a act of God to save us. Perhaps a case could be made that 9/11 was one, but will our now popular leader make anything of it? Not yet.

[M.K. Borders]

...The "line" that must never be crossed is the Constitution...

Agreed. 25 years ago I swore before God to defend the Constitution against all enemies. By the grace of that same god, I was never required to tramp a jungle, nor take another human life in order to fulfill that oath. My lot has been easy. All I have been required to do is vote.
Vote to defend the Constitution by casting ballots against those who lose sight of the principls found within. I did it before, and know that I will do it again!

The GOP has been sending me letters trying to get me to renew my membership. I won't do it and I told them so. Maybe this way I can make my views heard before going to the extreme of not supporting GWB. An informal vote if you will.

The fact is that the Democrates are offering to trample the Constitution for free whereas the GOP wants $40/year for the service. I have a political party, it's the NRA. Thats the way it will stand until someone thinks I'm worthwhile enough to change my mind.

[Paulus Invictus]

It will collapse if only the socialists win (DemocRATS)! If you think this is ridiculous, keep in mind what eight years of Clintons did to the nation.

[MozarkDawg]

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man."
--Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795. ME 9:317

I do not need to convince anybody to vote one way or another. That is not my job. I am not running for office.

I have only one responsibility. To uphold my own personal principles.

The "line" that must never be crossed is the Constitution. Deliberate violation of the Constitution for aquisition of power and money is not redeemable. Violators must be prosecuted and jailed. They must not be voted back into office merely becaue they are Republicans or Democrats.

Grow Up America. Start acting like adults, and act with honor. Stick to your principles.

People who think this country will collapse without the existence of Republicans or Democrats have no faith in themselves or the strength of a constitutional republic. They are childlike and REQUIRE somebody to take care of them.

7 posted on 6/23/02 10:41 AM Pacific by semper_libertas

Your entire post not only bears repeating, but highlighting -- good job, friend.

[Jeff Head]

We have reached a point in this nation where the dangers and wanrings given by George Washington in his farewell address regarding "Parties" have been fully realized.

Most people are comvinced that you must have a "party" to make the system work. The problem is, originally the system was not designed around any of that. It has been bastardized IMHO to include it by those who crave power.

We need tp get back where pople vote for people based on their beliefs, proposals and record ... and based on their integrity.

FRegards.

[biffalobull]

Second this country is a Republic not a Democracy. In a democracy the majority rule. Majority rule is mob rule. Mob rule is CHAOS. "

Broom; Could you please explain this to me. I was always under the impression that a Democracy is a majority rule by a free election<.p>

Two years ago we had a free election by which GWB won with a few more votes.

Does this constitute mob rule and chaos?.

Regards

[broomhilda]

"That was not a suggestion for solving the problem, that was an attempt at criticism. I asked how would someone solve the problem of Republicans acting
like conservatives and constitutionalist without: 1 voting for a third party and thereby electing a Democrat or 2 not voting and thereby electing a democrat.
(I expanded this for clarity)"
Bravo! That is just the point!! That is why we have Democrats running this country. That is why Tom Daschle can obstruct the voting of the senate on a judicial appointment.
That is why Condit is on the Intelligence Committee. Do you think these things would happen with a Republican majority in the house and senate. We have NEW GOOD CANDIDATES running for election as Republicans. Find out who they are and support them. Robert Levy for Congress in the 27th Congressional District against Brad Sherman. David Hernandez, Jr. in the 28th District, and Scott Johnson in the Marina area against Jane Harman, just to name a few here in Southern California.

[tricky_k_1972]

It's so sad the Republican Party is dead, and who cares right, I mean they just a bunch of commies in sheep skin anyway. So I guess I'll just vote for Pat B. or another Ross P. maybe I'll switch it up this time and vote Libertarian and then when all the Dems are in office then they'll see, those bad horrible Republicans will really feel it then. Oops but I can't say that anymore because then I'm talking against the The United Socialist States of America, the new government. But hey I stood up for my rights.......didn't I?

[VinnyTex]

Real trial. Real witnesses. For what? There wasn't any chance for a conviction. IMO the impeachment managers did a hell of a job. They gave it their best and realized Democraps weren't going to throw one of their own over.

[DoughtyOne]

As long as the Republicans in your model were enacting smaller government conservative legislation, I would be right behind you. But if it were enacting some of the same legislation that the Dems would if they were in power, then I'd have to say there would be a great deal wrong with it.

There is as much danger from having two like minded parties, as there is from having one like minded party.

[Paulus Invictus]

Third parties do nothing at all except assure that the despicable RATS win elections. If we don't back the Pubbies, the RATS win. The goal of all RATS is to establish full-blown socialism and to bring about the end of the Constitution as we know it. They also hope that the UN they fully support will eliminate our national sovereignty forever. What's your goal?

[Eagle Eye]

You can bitch all you want, but that's the facts jack.

The Republicans did not allow a full trial and did not allow chinagate evidence to be brought forward. the Republicans (according to Shippers) did NOT want a real trial.

THOSE are the facts, and the reason why I, too, left the GOP after the farse of a trial.

The Republican leadership is too connected and too similar to their Democratic counterparts to ever be trusted again. Ever.

[broomhilda]

NO. If we had a democracy the popular vote would win. We have an electoral college so that the smaller states would not get runover by the larger states. That is why the electoral votes are so important. If Gore had won his state of Tennesse and Bill Clinton's state of Arkansas Florida would not have gained the importance it did and Gore would have gained the presidency by the electoral college vote.