[ZULU]

Apparently there are Muslims willing to call a spade a spade.

[Post Toasties]

The religious coding of the simple words 'peace' and 'tolerance' in Islam indicates that much dialogue with Muslims is likely to be fraught with misunderstanding. Perhaps an agreement should be made up front that only secular word definitions should be used.

Wrt the Bishop of Hildesheim anecdote:

To tell the truth, I'm tempted, despite myself, to believe this is apocryphal because of the sheer unworldliness of the Imam in this passage. If such assumptions and attitudes are typical, it would show the unbelievable effrontery and high handedness of Islamic 'holy men'. So much so, that their understanding of the real world should be brought into serious question.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

The dialogue (between Muslims and the West) is not proceeding well because of the two-facedness of most Muslim interlocutors on the one hand and the gullibility of well-meaning Western idealists on the other..."

That pretty well sums up the entire situation.

[LTCJ]

This is a UPI article? Wonders never cease.

If these reporters can get to the truth, why can't the State Department? It took me a few months of exposure to Middle Eastern Muslims in grad school to come to these same conclusions. I have to wonder if anyone in the State Department has even met a Muslim, much less tried to do business with one.

I wonder if Tibi is available for a new job. I'm willing to take him as Secretary of State in trade for Powell, 100 civil servants, and a camel to be named later.

[JeepInMazar]

Messages to Muslims in America

[Clara Lou]

"Two-faced Muslims"-- there's a concept.

[Red Jones]

bump for a decent muslim.

[RightWhale]

the small worldwide Muslim reform movement

Bassam Tibi is a direct descendant of Muhammed. Only such a person will receive a hearing of any kind amongst Muslims. Wish him well.

[Aaron_A]

bump

[knighthawk]

ZULU: great article.

Islam list

If people want on or off this list, please let me know.

[Dan Day]

Muslims also have a different meaning in mind when they speak of their "humiliation" at the hands of the West or Israel (as they do very often).

As near as I can tell from seeing how they use this word, what they really mean by "humiliation" is how enraged they feel when anything happens that prevents them from getting/having absolutely everything they want.

[tictoc]

Fellow freepers, you heard it here first.

[lavaroise]

Tibi and Palazzi. Two courrageous men. I will differ though on their emphasis on definitions (all too much used by Islam and which makes it inherently radical), though they are important too.

[Fzob]

The bishop of Hildesheim in Germany paid an imam a courtesy visit in his mosque. The imam handed the Catholic prelate a Koran, which he joyfully accepted. But when the bishop tried to present the imam with a Bible, the Muslim cleric just stared at him in horror and refused to even touch Christianity's holy book.

This is why at some point the West will realize the first step in really fixing this problem will require making Mecca a place that used to be on the map.

[Madame Dufarge]

They are 'dhimmi,' a protected but politically immature minority."

Finally, an acknowledgement that it's more of a political system than a religion.

[GuillermoX]

bump

[Aquinasfan]

"The dialogue is not proceeding well because of the two-facedness of most Muslim interlocutors on the one hand and the gullibility of well-meaning Western idealists on the other," Bassam Tibi said Tuesday in an interview with United Press International.

Important info bump.

[rageaholic]

Americans were not always so gullible. Our common sense has been eroded by decades of liberal education and hypertolerance indoctrination.

For example, suppose in 1939 the Nazi party established a headquarters in every city and large american town in the USA. Suppose they funded these headquarters directly from Berlin and recruited members from among society's dregs in prisons and gangs. Suppose Nazis immigrated to the USA by the shipload and took up residences across the nation.

Who would stand for that?

Suppose they spread propaganda and told everybody "we are peaceful people from the land of chocolate".

Who would believe this?

But today Islam is invading the USA, recruiting in prisons, putting their Saudi funded mosques everywhere, lying to us that "Islam is Peace" etc etc, and the USA largely just accepts it.

Islam has no place in the west.

[Steve0113]

"First, both sides should acknowledge candidly that although they might use identical terms these mean different things to each of them.

Furthermore, they do not share a cultural context from which to establish an understanding. Concepts such as the separation of church and state, the existence of objective truth and the desirability of speaking it, which are a given in the West, are utterly alien to Islam.

[VOA]

"The dialogue is not proceeding well because of the two-facedness of most Muslim interlocutors
on the one hand and the gullibility of well-meaning Western idealists on the other,"...

Well, maybe we've found one honest Muslim (outside those few pockets like
Turkey).

I hope this gets picked up by the Prager, Medved and Hewitt shows.

[SevenDaysInMay]

Bump for later read during momentary pauses in Armageddon.