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For discussion. Farah is certainly an articulate fellow.
1 posted on 06/18/2002 9:48:13 PM PDT by old-ager
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To: old-ager
Joe's article pretty much summarizes my thoughts exactly.
2 posted on 06/18/2002 10:04:18 PM PDT by billybudd
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To: old-ager
Joe Farah doesn't know what he is! He's living in limbo.

>>>The truth is there's more to life than politics. Much more.

Frankly Joe, you're full of s**t!

3 posted on 06/18/2002 10:06:39 PM PDT by Reagan Man
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To: old-ager
"Man can only learn to govern himself when he understands there is a higher accountability – a higher authority. Ideally, that higher authority is not the government, but God. Government can only demand good behavior through force. But when individuals understand they are accountable to God, and that He requires certain kinds of behavior as defined in the Ten Commandments and the totality of scripture, there is a chance for man to maximize his freedom here on earth."

And this is why our nation is going to hell in a handbasket today! Bravo JF, as usual!

4 posted on 06/18/2002 11:32:30 PM PDT by brat
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To: old-ager
Hmmm.... I thought I was a libertarian, but I agree pretty much with Farah. Doe's that mean I am not a libertarian either?

I think there might be more libertarians than Farah realizes that agree with him:^)

5 posted on 06/18/2002 11:40:39 PM PDT by monday
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To: old-ager
Libertarians make a fundamental mistake about the nature of man. Man is not inherently good.

Typical anti-libertarian strawman argument. Libertarianism does not entail a belief that "man is inherently good". In fact, libertarians require that individuals be held responsible for their own actions -- which is the quickest way to expose bad actors.

6 posted on 06/18/2002 11:53:58 PM PDT by ravinson
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To: old-ager
Joe is always able to put into words well that which escapes me.
9 posted on 06/19/2002 1:25:09 AM PDT by exnavy
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To: old-ager
Libertarianism requires absolute responsibility. How many libertarians out there blame porn, and not Ted Bundy, for the crimes that he committed? How many conservatives blame the drug and not the violent criminal? How many conservatives are not willing to stop subscribing to cable tv since it attacks their values? They want the government to step in and regulate it so they can still have it. They aren't willing to take responsibility by cutting off the service. Same goes for movie and music. If you don't like the music, don't listen it. Movies too pornographic? Don't go to the theatres and see anything above PG. Radio too saucy? Replace your radio with a CD player.

We advocate freedom and responsibility. We do recognize the fact that you cannot have freedom without a moral society. What we disagree with is how the state should deal with that. If the people aren't moral, the actions their government takes won't be either. Only a limited government can minimize the damage. Libertarianism is, as many libertarian writers put it, quite possibly the most cynical philosophy about human nature around in the mainstream.

12 posted on 06/19/2002 1:33:16 AM PDT by dheretic
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To: old-ager
Some libertarian concepts are only plausible in a purely libertarian society. For instance, 'open borders' is absolute suicide unless we also completely eliminate our overly generous welfare state.
15 posted on 06/19/2002 6:44:07 AM PDT by tdadams
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To: old-ager
>Why I'm not a libertarian

Why I'm not a libertarian:

I keep falling off my broom...

-- KotS

20 posted on 06/19/2002 7:33:58 AM PDT by KissOfTheSith
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To: old-ager
Fine essay. I disagree that the federal government has no role in fighting the proliferation and use of illegal drugs. To the extent that these drugs originate in other countries and enter our nation across international borders, only the federal government has the Constitutional power to fight the battle. Other than that minor disagreement, I applaud Farah for this well-reasoned piece.

The paradox is, and for the very reasons Farah cites, many of the people most anxious to implement a libertarian government (pro-gay, pro-drug, pro-porn atheist fiscal conservatives) are least likely and able to make one succeed.

On the other hand, many of the people least anxious to implement a libertarian governent (Judeo-Christian cultural conservatives) are most likely and able to make one succeed. They are not anxious to see a libertarian government implemented because they realize popular culture has become so debased and disdainful of morality and self-discipline that this nation would almost immediately descend into anarchy and chaos that the Constitution could neither ameliorate nor prevent.

As a practical matter, libertarianism is the least likely form of government to be implemented anyway The strong tendency is toward nanny government socialism. Therefore, any part of the libertarian agenda (e.g., legalization of drugs etc) that can be implemented will almost certainly be implemented according to a socialist model--not a libertarian model.

30 posted on 06/19/2002 10:55:01 AM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: old-ager
Ideally, that higher authority is not the government, but God. Government can only demand good behavior through force.

And God doesn't demand good behavior through force? I don't see the distinction.

31 posted on 06/19/2002 11:10:07 AM PDT by tortoise
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To: old-ager
I believe a nation's borders are sacrosanct
America needs a strong defense

Are these beliefs really at odds with libertarian philosophy?

38 posted on 06/19/2002 12:13:57 PM PDT by Hot Soup
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To: old-ager
For discussion. Farah is certainly an articulate fellow.

And he's generally right about libertines. Uninformed clowns, one and all.

62 posted on 06/20/2002 12:29:51 PM PDT by VA Advogado
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To: old-ager
The truth is there's more to life than politics. Much more.

Well, yes, but that's beside the point. When resolving a political issue, one focuses on politics. It is appropriate for libertarians (and conservatives, and liberals, and so on) to focus on politics for the same reason it is appropriate for architects (and civil engineers, and car designers, and so on) to focus on mechanical physics.

68 posted on 06/20/2002 12:41:02 PM PDT by steve-b
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To: old-ager
It's a good article, chuck full of truth, and that quote by Washington shows why we are, and have been for decades, in need of leaders with his intellect and lack of appetite for the job.

I distrust anyone wanting to be President from the get go, because the desire for, and reasons to, want to wield that kind of power should be scrutinized. Washington had to basically be talked into being President, no recent politician that I'm aware of who has attempted to capture the Presidency can say the same.

72 posted on 06/20/2002 12:53:47 PM PDT by Aedammair
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