Atheists Protest Ground Zero Cross

WorldNetDaily ^ | Posted: June 18, 2002 | By Ron Strom

[Bad~Rodeo]

Decry plan to use symbol as part of 9-11 memorial

:

The organization American Atheists is protesting a proposal to use a large steel cross found in the rubble of the World Trade Center in a memorial to victims of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

Describing itself as a "nationwide movement which defends the civil rights of nonbelievers," the group said in a statement yesterday that use of the cross in a government-funded monument "would violate the separation of church and state, be insensitive to those victims who had no religious beliefs and would incredibly pay homage to religion – the prime motivating factor in the faith-based attack of Sept. 11."

The Lower Manhattan Development Corporation is the local agency in charge of planning for the rebuilding of the site.

Ed Malloy, president of the Building and Construction Trades Council and a board member of the agency, has asked that the cross be made a permanent part of any future memorial.

According to the New York Daily News, construction workers, firefighters, police officers and family members have held weekly Sunday services at the site of the cross since Sept. 11.

"We're hoping it will stay right where it is and become part of any permanent memorial," Malloy was quoted as saying in the Daily News.

Ellen Johnson, president of American Atheists objects to the possibility that the cross might be used in a taxpayer-supported project.

"This is an inappropriate use of taxpayer money," she said in the statement, "You can't take government funds to promote religion, especially sectarian religion in the form of a cross or any other religious symbol."

Johnson added that any memorial to the victims of the attacks "should bring Americans together, not divide them on the basis or religion or anything else."

Ron Barrier, national spokesman for the group, stressed that Muslims, Hindus and other non-Christians were killed in the attacks as well.

What about them? he asked. "Are we going to turn the site of the WTC into a religious shrine with competing religious slogans, symbols and displays? Any monument to the victims, and those who helped in the aftermath of Sept. 11 should be tasteful, as well as a unifying statement about America and humanity.

"Christian symbols are as inappropriate as a Muslim crescent or some other religious label," Barrier said.

Construction worker Frank Silecchia happened upon the perfectly symmetrical cross in the midst of the WTC wreckage just a few days after the attacks. It was standing straight, 20-feet high, surrounded by many smaller crosses.

"When I first saw it, it took my heart," Silecchia said. "It helped me heal the burden of my despair, and gave me closure on the whole catastrophe."

Said WorldNetDaily columnist Ann Coulter in an October column : "The cross at Ground Zero was not simply the cross beams remaining from an existing building. It was formed out of beams from Building One plunging, splitting and crashing into Building Six."

"There's no symmetry to anything down there," an FBI chaplain said at the time, "except those crosses."

Johnson said that her group would go to court if necessary to challenge the use of government money for the placement of any religious symbol at the WTC site.

[Dimensio]

Uh...that should be "cocky big snot" above. Not that anyone shouldn't be able to figure that out.

[Thorondir]

Here's a clue, my friend: You live in a Christian nation. It is not a Jewish nation, but it protects your right to be as jewish as you see fit. It also protects Israel and treats you far better than Christians are treated in Israel. So quit your whining. Jews are about 1% of this nation and most of them do not practice the jewish faith at all. So quit whining for the 90% to bend over backward for the less than 1%. If you don't like living in a free and prosperous Christian nation, then Delta is ready when you are. Have a nice day.

[Dimensio]

On what basis do you call this a "Christian nation"?

[Thorondir]

Christians built the most honest, free, fair, healthy, just and prosperous civilization ever seen on the face of the earth.

And the great civilization build by athests was...

Well...

Uhm...

They just suck.

[Dimensio]

They just suck.

What a masterful argument you have made here. I'm ready to renounce my "athesm" right away.

[Thorondir]

Probably that it was founded on Christian principles by Christians and has been defended overwhelmingly by the blood of Christians ever since, and it's citizens overwhelmingly define themselves as Christians.

Gosh. Other than that, no reason. Why?

Sheesh!

[Thorondir]

Perhaps you can name the great civilization (or ANY civilization) built up by atheists in the history of mankind.

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That's what I thought. Thank you for your wonderful contributions. 8o)

[tortoise]

...perhaps more like BELIEVING you could breath in a vacuum...

That's exactly my point. "Worship" in a religious sense is predicated on the existence of a deity. You are premising a belief that can't exist by definition, making your logic broken. Belief doesn't validate (or invalidate, for that matter) an argument that is unsound at its premise, which really has more bearing on your argument than any I'm making. I've never seen an atheist claim to be "worshipping no deity", which you are claiming is not only possible but common.

[Thorondir]

BTW: There IS a difference between an argument and a comment. If you study logic you may one day come to some grasp of such things. But then, it may become difficult to avoid believing in anything greater than yourself.

[Dimensio]

Yes, since atheism is a complete belief system with a full set of ethics, then logically it should be possible to construct a government with it as a basis.

Oh, wait. Atheism isn't a belief system and there isn't an ethical system attached to it. Nevermind.

[cake_crumb]

The difference is that there are artifacts of 9-11 that the shocked and grieving citizens of this country have latched onto...that the citizens of other countries have latched onto as well.

The flag: Britain, Canada and Australia (I'm still a little shocked at this) ESPECIALLY Britain, had the American flag flying on their desks and on their websites and on their homes...as a tribute not only to those who were killed in the attacks, but to that flag - the one everyone signed - which they had seen so many times on television and had come to associate, in their own minds, with freedom, and of the simple human unity which MOST of the world felt in the wake of such an atrocity. That beat up, signed piece of cloth which contains the thoughts and feelings of those most immediately affected should be preserved for posterity at the site upon which it first took hold upon the hearts and minds of humanity.

That cross. Well...for the same reasons. Rewriting this stuff brings it all back in living sound and color to me...

Anyhow, I'm tryng to say that certain sentimental symbols of 9-11 have already taken the hearts and minds of humanity regarding 9-11. They should be preserved...with an inclusion of the photograph park which memorializes the spot in OKC where so many died. I'd like to see the spotlights kept as well. The whole deal. Every artifact from ground zero, which has been mentioned on this thread has been deeply imprinted in the hearts and minds of the world.

In future generations, let them continue to look, as they do now and think, as they do now "That could heve been me. That could have been my country." Let history stand unchanged. Lest we forget.

[Dimensio]

Matthew 5:22

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

[cake_crumb]

"And the great civilization build by athests was...

"They just suck."

ROFLOL.....errr....WELL SAID BUMP!!

[usadave]

Ron Barrier, national spokesman for the group, stressed that Muslims, Hindus and other non-Christians were killed in the attacks as well. What about them? he asked. "Are we going to turn the site of the WTC into a religious shrine with competing religious slogans, symbols and displays?

Let's appease the atheists by letting them place their own religious symbol at the WTC memorial site!

[tortoise]

it may become difficult to avoid believing in anything greater than yourself.

I see this phrase used repeatedly. What does "believing in anything greater than yourself" really mean? The use of "greater" is completely ambiguous, making the sentence semantically null.

[Sicon]

" the prime motivating factor in the faith-based attack of Sept. 11."

Anyone else notice how they connected the phrase "faith-based" with the terrorist atrocity of Sept. 11th?

As they say in those PGA commercials, "These guys are good" -- and totally reprehensible.

[aught-6]

Why can't we make these atheists AND the Christians happy? One one side, we'll put a cross and on the other side we'll put nothing. That way, each group's beliefs will be represented.

LOL Great idea for compromise!

[flyervet]

The difference is that there are artifacts of 9-11 that the shocked and grieving citizens of this country have latched onto...that the citizens of other countries have latched onto as well.

The same can be said for any major attack. For instance, after OKC people latched on to the image of a firefighter carrying out the broken, battered body of a toddler. That image stays with us and is part of other OKC monuments and memorials. It is not, however, part of the large, official OKC monument, and that fact doesn't detract from the impact of that monument one iota.

Anyhow, I'm tryng to say that certain sentimental symbols of 9-11 have already taken the hearts and minds of humanity regarding 9-11.

Sure. That's human nature and happens after almost any traumatic event, both on a grand scale, like the WTC, and on a minor scale, such as the sudden death of a beloved pet. The sheer universality of the 09/11 attacks is testament to the fact that we need a new monument that is unbound by preconceived notions and cultural prejudices. The freedom afforded by non-representational architecture is a good part of why the Vietnam memorial is so very effective, and affecting.

They should be preserved...with an inclusion of the photograph park which memorializes the spot in OKC where so many died.

Not a thing wrong with that, and I don't think anyone, including the American Atheists, are saying that those items and images should be destroyed. The only thing I would disagree with you on is the linkage of the OKC terrorist attack with the WTC attack in the site monument. Both attacks deserve their own platform.

I'd like to see the spotlights kept as well.

I agree, but I believe the spotlights might prove to be unworkable in a permanent site monument. For one, they would not be observable during the day, a huge issue if you know anything about that neighborhood.

The whole deal. Every artifact from ground zero, which has been mentioned on this thread has been deeply imprinted in the hearts and minds of the world.

I'm sure there's a place for each and every one of those artifacts. Just because it's not incorporated into the site memorial does not mean they cease to exist. Consider the many items and images associated with Vietnam that exist apart and separate from the Vietnam memorial.

[stands2reason]

First off, welcome to FR! Secondly, "the separation of church and state" does not appear in the constitution. The only mention of religion is in the first amendment. It basically says: Congress shall make no law establishing a particular religion or restricting the practice of any religion.