'VIGILANTE' JEWS WILL SET FORTH A BATTLE PLAN

New York Post ^ | 6/16/02 | PHILIP MESSING

[kattracks]

June 16, 2002 -- The Jewish Defense Group - which says it wants to protect its neighborhood even as critics call them vigilantes looking to inflame tensions - will hit the streets today with its controversial armed patrols.

Leaders of the group last week raised the hackles of cops and other city leaders by vowing to patrol Jewish neighborhoods such as Borough Park and Flatbush.

[SJackson]

The point is, jews are not particularly in danger. These attacks have targeted everyone.

They’ve been targeted for violence. A progrum occurred in Crown Heights within the last decade. Are they only in danger when dead? They should agitate to reform the gun laws not to set themselves above them.
By doing so they say quite clearly:
1) Only jews matter.
2) Only jews can bear guns. Goys don't matter.
I want to see what the JDG has done to spread firearm ownership to all Americans.

What rubbish. You’re suggesting self defense is somehow a matter of political advocacy by religious or racial groups? Can you point to anything intelligible to prove to me this program says “Only Jews matter” and “Only jews can bear guns. Goys don't matter”?

Do you know anything of the JDG’s position on gun control? Please educate me about their anti-gun postions.

What’s illegal about this? Properly licensed individuals carrying their properly licensed weapons? No. Carrying a cased weapon? Aggressive, illegal, not sure. Please fill me because this is being advocated in several non CCW states, not on a religious basis, Jews and goys can do it, and I’d be interested in basis of your opinion.

[SJackson]

Good Lord, you're spot on correct. A certain amount of hatred, in conjunction with fear of the unknown, has resulted in exactly the examples you've stated. And there's absolutely no reason to think that history won't repeat itself again, or that what we are witnessing here is somehow unrelated. In pausing to think about it, it gives one an eerie feeling.

Though the thread seems to be more about anti-Jewish sentiment, I think anti-Moslem sentiment combined a domestic attack using firearms is a greater risk to our rights. It would give a real boost to the anti gun forces.

[LarryLied]

but I don't understand why you insist on inserting...

Because I'm sick of a very selective and self-serving history being brought up while discussing current events. I don't mention what I do out of nowhere. And if someone starts to sling the Nazi sticker around and slander conservatives with it, it is only self-defense to mention some historical facts those who engage in that slander would prefer no one know about. A case in point is an article on the JTA.ORG newswire posted on FR today. Did you know those on the right admire Mussolini? Did you know conservatives flock to his birthplace and are forming a cult to worship him? Yes it is true but we can thank the JTA for alerting us and sending a warning to papers all over America.Click here for details.

[DBtoo]

How funny! It is so beautiful here. I am about to go into work; it has been very hot here the last few days and I am expecting to burn up today. I am also going to be very busy so I plan on having lots of drinks on hand. People even call at home to make appts. This is such a layed back place and people can do stuff like that here. People can also bring their dogs to work here which is neat. So I am looking forward to a very hot and busy day. I would wear sandels but the bugs are so bad that I would get bit up. At least I can put my hair up which will help keep me cool.

[Aleksandar Vojvoda]

It sounds as if you and "AppyPappy" have a dispute as to the policy of the USSR,vis-a-vis Israel immediately post-WWII.

You must be having aural halluncinations from all the gunfire you are directing.

Touche,but sadly,I have heard that the Jewish Defense Group won't be directing any gunfire.

[SJackson]

Are you really incabable of understanding that these people are making a laughing stock of themselves? ...Do you imagine a terror attack will be stopped by street patrols in Jewish areas? ...But when have the Islamicists in the US ever taken an action that could be stopped by something like this? ...But walk around the streets of New York in big mean crowds brandishing weapons? ...How is that going to stop a dirty nuke, a hijacked airliner, a car bomb? ...They are acting entirely on the basis of paranoid fear and instinct...It's not frightening: it's not impressive; it's funny...The Islamicists must be cracking their sides. In the US they are not. going to be using suicide bombers, or direct street level assasination. It would be an awful bad strategy for them in a land they intend to take by infiltration and demography. And you really can't see that.

Your argument is thoroughly specious.

I’ll dismiss your side splitting laughter, it’s not much of an argument and I doubt anyone involved cares. I don’t.

Do I really think Islamic youth could attempt to terrorize Jewish communities. You betcha, they’re doing it in Europe as we speak. And despite your chuckles, attacks have been carried out, the most recent I’m aware of in this neighborhood an attack on a Rabbi by four or five Islamic youths about a month ago. This group is responding to a specific threat to attack American Jewish citizens, in a neighborhood where attacks have occurred. They have a right to defend themselves and their community.

You’re right, armed citizens won’t stop a dirty nuke or aircraft hijackings(if the citizens on the plane are unarmed).

Then you proceed to “suicide bombings or car bombs” (They use firearms as well.) These are precisely the direct “street level” attacks you just claimed terrorist’s wouldn’t employ. Make your mind up.

An armed citizenry has been very effective in stopping some of these attacks in Israel, and would be here. Many 2nd amendment supporters on FR use Israel’s experience as a basis to expand CCW in America, and they’re right.

You can enjoy your laugh, I suspect based on who and where you are you don't feel yourself at risk, but these Jews in Brooklyn are. And they have a right to defend themselves despite your guffaws.

[constitutiongirl]

It wouldn't stop something as big as 9/11 but it may prevent something like a low-life shooting up a Hebrew school (California, white-supremicist, ring a bell?).

[constitutiongirl]

I know a good number of Orthodox Jews who look at the JDL as an embarrasment. Equating all Jews with the leftist yahoos at the JDL is the same as the JDL equating all European Christians with facists.

[constitutiongirl]

That web site is hosted by a small extreme group of Hasidic Jews. Kind of the Jewish version of the skin head movement, except smaller. The version of the Talmud they use (Babylonian) is not the Talmud that most other Jews use. That quote was lifted, I believe, from the book of Sanhedrin. Outside of the Hasidic and Sephardic communities, I guarantee most Jews have never he heard of it.

[LarryLied]

Knew a JDL guy who was as conservative as I am. Big second amendment supporter. He sold "Street Sweepers" in Vegas. Only when I saw him at a convention with a name tag on did I find out for 3 years I had been calling him by his "street name" as he put it.

[nickcarraway]

Assemblyman Dov Hikind (D-Brooklyn) said last week he was "outraged" at Lloyd's suggestion that the NYPD was not doing an adequate job.

Yes! Only he should be able tosay the NYPD isn't doing an adequate job.

[wotan]

Is a Jew who believes in Jesus a Jew? There is a lot of debate about that. The Israeli Supreme Court has apparantly rendered their decision. It's just politics. Maybe the equivalent of a Roe v Wade type decision. Their obvious agenda being to keep the Jewish state a Jewish state.

It's not like, say, Saudi Arabia or Kuwait, where you can't practice another religion in public, and cannot gain citizenship through immigration at all.

I don't understand why no one wants to address the question I asked. Why are Jews who embrace atheism accepted as immigrants but Jews who embrace Christianity rejected?

So far, I am just getting defensive non-answers.

[monkeyshine]

What part of my answer didn't you understand? The Israeli Supreme Court has ruled that Jews who have converted to Christianity to no longer be Jews. Professing no belief in God is not the same as professing belief in a different god.