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1 posted on 06/15/2002 4:58:57 AM PDT by Clive
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To: *AfricaWatch;Cincinatus' Wife;Sarcasm;Travis McGee;Byron_the_Aussie; robnoel; GeronL;ZOOKER...
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2 posted on 06/15/2002 4:59:35 AM PDT by Clive
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To: Clive
Muslims are certainly not monolithic. The Muslim I had lunch with yesterday got pretty emphatic about "those thugs are not true Muslims, following Islam, any more than the Godfather was an ideal Catholic". That point was hard to counter.

When he got launched on the skyjackers who were drinking in a Florida topless bar, he really got rolling on sin and betrayal of a religion.

3 posted on 06/15/2002 5:11:08 AM PDT by KirklandJunction
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To: Clive
extreme leftism and communism did not cause Stalin's killing sewages, nor did Islam had any thing to do with Abu sayaf , but religion had everny thing to do with the crusades(sarcasm)
5 posted on 06/15/2002 5:15:01 AM PDT by lavaroise
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To: Clive
bookmark bump
8 posted on 06/15/2002 5:20:31 AM PDT by Cacique
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To: Clive
"Religion" is the feeblest of all excuses for the deeds of evil men. There is an absolute moral order in the universe that forbids the killing of others except in self-defense. Any religion that sets aside this rule is no religion at all.

The great problem of all organized religion is that, as with governments, the people who fight most fiercely to rise within them are precisely the people who should not be permitted to do so. There is only one counteragent: the postulate of absolutes, which proclaims that each of us is expected to know right from wrong on the basis of fundamental principles that no "leader" can change. This is the founding postulate of the West, on the basis of which we conducted the Nuremberg trials.

Note that Christ did not radicalize His followers. He said plainly: "I come not to overthrow the law, but to fulfill it," at a time when the formal religious practices of the Hebrews were becoming less and less accessible to the common man. But He did not exempt any man from the Ten Commandments -- not even in dealing with others who held the Commandments in contempt.

In contrast, the Koran proclaims that Muslims are exempt from all moral strictures when dealing with "the infidel."

The clergy that bases its pronouncements on the Koran does not recognize the Judeo-Christian postulate of absolutes. It claims total power over its billion-plus followers, who would be required to lay down their lives on any basis the imams, mullahs, and ayatollahs decreed suitable.

At present, only a minority of Muslims accept the Islamic clergy's claim of totalitarian authority. Yet that minority is now the most deadly force moving in the world. It must be stripped of religious justification and divorced irrevocably by more sensible Muslims, lest its fate sweep them all up together.

Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Visit the Palace Of Reason: http://palaceofreason.com

9 posted on 06/15/2002 5:26:18 AM PDT by fporretto
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To: Clive
"Many need to stop blaming the West, Christianity or Israel for sufferings imposed on them by their own regimes."

I think this sentence sums up the problem with Islam and the Arabs. In Saudi Arabia, for example, there is a "Royal Family" which lives in so much wealth that they could give half of it to the people and still live better than 99% of the world. I truly believe that the Saudi Royal Family is so greedy that it will talk with a forked tongue to hold onto its unbeleivable power and wealth. It is a regime, which if it were any where else, that would be toppled for its greed and selfish way of ruling its own people.

The rest of the Arabic world is pretty much set-up the same using as an example the Saudi Royal Family as basis for maintaining power. How else could a leader gain more support for telling children to go out and comit suicide so the leader will be a more recognized leader... Sounds weird to us, but that philosophy alone shows how twisted these regimes have become and the power of propaganda to uneducated and impoverished masses......

10 posted on 06/15/2002 5:32:03 AM PDT by Logician
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To: Clive
Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, al-Qaida, the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, Harakat ul-Mujahedin in Kashmir. Muslim terror gangs in the Philippines, India and the Balkans. Muslim teenagers bombing synagogues in France, Britain and Belgium. A novelist threatened with death for having an opinion, embassies invaded and trashed, journalists having their throats cut and their bodies dumped like garbage.

Clinton and Bush, did you see that? Muslim terror gangs in ... the Balkans.

12 posted on 06/15/2002 5:39:25 AM PDT by F-117A
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To: Clive
Did Islam ever find it's way in the first place, I don't think it has changed as much as we have learned more about it, and it ain't pretty learning.
19 posted on 06/15/2002 5:53:40 AM PDT by Great Dane
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To: Clive
Has Islam lost its way?

Not at all. It's still heading right where it always has - straight into the pits of hell. May it arrive very, very soon...

26 posted on 06/15/2002 6:37:37 AM PDT by MarineDad
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To: Clive
BTTT
29 posted on 06/15/2002 6:52:48 AM PDT by ContraryMary
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To: Clive
Has Islam lost its way?

No, it's been just starting.

it's been converting from sword fight bravery perception tests to nuke'em bravery perception tests.

38 posted on 06/15/2002 8:43:37 AM PDT by lavaroise
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To: Clive
Has Islam lost its way?

Nope. Not at all. It's always been a killer religion.

41 posted on 06/15/2002 9:51:06 AM PDT by neutrino
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To: Clive
Good article, and comments.

Bump.

44 posted on 06/15/2002 10:08:50 AM PDT by agrace
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To: Clive
Mohammedism started as a violent, conquering cult and it has not lost its' way but returned to the teaching that worked for the arabs 1400 years ago; You kill infidels and go to heaven and get young virgins.
46 posted on 06/15/2002 11:29:09 AM PDT by metacognative
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To: Clive
the people who shot, slashed, bombed, tortured and maimed did so in the name of Islam

That's what they said, but the truth is elsewhere. They are revolutionaries operating under cover of religion. They might have operated under cover of communism in an earlier day. They don whatever camoflage is effective in their day.

We can see this [apparently most people still don't see it] in the environmentalism and global warming movements, and even in the back-to-nature trampling of property rights for scenic trails. The revolutionaries are operating under cover of science or the UN. Call them what you want, elitists, fundamentalists, activists, students, there is something inside them that is not at all attractive.

On Art Bell last night the discussion was Planet X, which some think could be here in a few years and will wipe out 90% of humanity on earth. I am not worried about this, spend no time on the subject, but I listened to some calls to the program. Almost without exception the callers seemed to favor the idea of reducing earth's population by 90% or even 100%. And most were willing to face the consequences of loss of civil control by law by going out on their own and raping and pillaging until somebody bigger stopped them.

The Islamists should know that they aren't special. They are attacking civilization, but the veneer of civilization is thin. Many of us, maybe most, would just as soon wipe their DNA out of existence as have to listen to them and watch their pranks and stunts. But we are being civilized. For the moment. Don't push too hard, Omar. We might go jungle on you and then revert to civilized again as if nothing had happened.

51 posted on 06/15/2002 2:36:21 PM PDT by RightWhale
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