Posted on 06/14/2002 7:57:25 PM PDT by tutstar
JACKSONVILLE, FL - After maintaining silence for several days the local Muslim community is finally speaking out about the controversy created by Reverend Jerry Vines earlier in the week at the Southern Baptist Convention.
Islamic Center President Shakur Bolden addressed the public Friday in an attempt to undo the damage done to the Muslim community. Bolden began by asking his followers "How can one be demon possessed and tell us to live in peace and harmony? Is that a demon possessed person?"
The questions he asked stemmed from the comments made by Reverend Jerry Vines. Said Vines, "Islam was founded by Mohammed, a demon-possessed pedophile who had 12 wives and his last one was a 9 year old girl."
In his sermon before a packed mosque, Bolden took special aim not so much at the words Vines used by Vines but at the ignorance that fueled them. He chastised Vines for speaking about a culture he knows little of and perhaps for knowing even less of his own.
Said Bolden, "If we were even to read the history of our country, the United States of America, we would find that up to a hundred years ago, marriage was legal at the age of ten."
In addition to addressing followers of the Muslim faith on Friday, a full page ad will run in the Florida Times Union on Saturday and will feature a letter from Bolden to the Reverend Vines. The letter talks about how offensive Vines' language was to all Muslims and asks him to clear the air by meeting with Bolden.
Muslims say that they are concerned about the damage that could be done from the comments that the Reverend made. Tahirah Abdullah said, "I wish he had been a little bit more sensitive in the words that he used. I think pedophile is a strong word. I don't know why he did that but I hope he learns." Hafez Assali added, "We hope everyone understands to respect to one another and not to rush to a quick judgment."
In the meantime, Reverend Jerry Vines is preparing to speak to his congregation for the first time since he made the controversial comments, this Sunday. You can watch Vines' sermon live Sunday at 10:30am on WTLV12.
It really is.
"It's simply a matter of quoting [Islamic] sources," said Emir Caner, an assistant professor of church history and Anabaptist studies at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, N.C. "If we are wrong in our understanding of the Islamic scriptures, we would be happy to be corrected."
I.E., in debate language: "Our evidence is unimpeachable, you know it, and you just don't like that fact."
At the end of the show, the moderates that were not living in the intolerant U.S. were in jail.
Islam may have been hijacked by extremeists, but they are the ones in power. To think anything else is sheer folly.
Surely does sound like "The Wizard of Oz!" Any traction there???
-- (Surah 48:29) |
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-- (Surah 9:37-)." |
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-- (Surah 3:19)
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KNOW ISLAM. READ THE KORAN. |
Then the World began to listen to what Muslims were saying and to watch what Muslims were doing. Vines' remarks reflect the reaction that the people of the world have had to what they have observed.
Muslims are wasting their time on "damage control" unless they clean up their act. And even then, it might not be possible to correct negative opinions about Islam--if those negative opinions reflect the truth about Islam.
Vines' remarks would fall on deaf ears, if the people of the world had not observed for themselves just what Islam and Muslims (apparantly) stand for and had not recoiled in disgust.
Muslims who want to do damage control would be wise to ignore critics such as Vines and denounce in no uncertain terms those aspects of Islam that the world finds repugnant, e.g. terrorism, brutality, imperialism, intolerance, et al., as well as the shocking aspects of Islam that have come to light (and shocked the world) such as death to apostates, the stoning of people to death, chopping off hands and feet, execution of rape victims, advocacy of slavery, the use of the Koran as a governmental constitution, the banning of freedom of religion in Islamic theocracies, terrorism, murder/suicided bombings, al-Qaida, etc., et al.
Once Muslims have clarified a few details such as these--assuming that there is nothing else there to disgust the world--the words of anti-Islamic critics should be of no consequence.
Critical words are not the cause of anti-Islamic opinions. Unpleasant truths are.
By the way, has Davette Turk gotten herself together yet, or is she still in tears?
Nevermind. I can hear her blubbering all the way up here.
A lengthy passage from the Hadith, volume 1, book 1, chapter 1, shows that Muhammad himself believed he was under demonic influence"
"No more witnesses your honor, I rest my case."
Those facts in no way excuse what we would term heterosexual pedophilia, of course.
But, back to the point - this was the Dark Ages, and Mohammed was fortunate enough to live in one of the few places not depopulated by one of the world's greatest plagues (just then past), and all of these events took place in a small population that depended on trade with guys who chased sheep and goats.
As everyone in this particular thread knows, 100% of the information we have about Mohammad, or from Mohammad, comes from people who wrote his words, and the words of others, and their own thoughts on small pieces of wood or leather, or old crockery, with charcoal sticks, or pens dipped in inferior quality ink! Some of this material ended up in the Koran; some was relegated to the Hadiths, and yet other of it was just left for historians to find and sort out.
Those who presume Divine guidance behind this writing and sorting and categorizing would argue that all the material concerning the age of the last wife is absolutely true.
Those who question the legitimacy of half or more of all the ancient materials surrounding Mohammad, his life, and the lives and adventures of his companions can readily say that this particular piece of business is simply not proven.
In short, Moslems have to buy the story; non-Moslems can reject it or use it in debates with Moslems, which is alright if you are debating religion, but not alright if you are debating facts.
If we simply move back to the fundamentals - the questions about the legitimacy of those pieces of wood with Arabic writing on them - we can probably resolve 99% of the dilemmas within Islam, and also eliminate the sources of conflict between Islam and Christianity.
Unfortunately for the Moslems, they don't want to ask those questions. After all, in this day and age, to do so could get you killed (and I don't mean like Salman Rushdi because he believes all of this stuff is legitimate and true and faithful to the life and times of the Prophet. He's as bad as the guys who want to kill him.)
In the earliest centuries, Moslems still had it in them to question the legitimacy of text and to differentiate the true from the questionable. This sort of thing hasn't been done for a millenium, and that's why they now find Christians debating just how bad a pedophile their precious Mohammad really was, and using their own "Sunday School Lessons" (Hadiths) to do it.
My only question regarding Pastor Vines' comment is whether or not his statements are correct. I admit to being in the dark when it comes to religion, but I haven't seen any refuting of his comments. Only criticism for saying it.
YOu need to read more. Try the life of "Ol' Hickory," Andrew Jackson for example.
He IS a "hero", but he had his ways...
(N.B.: Being played in film by Charlton Heston is a sure way to boost one's stock, though).
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