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Noah's Flood Hypothesis May Not Hold Water
RPI ^ | June 14, 2002 | Jun Abrajano

Posted on 06/14/2002 7:32:58 AM PDT by aculeus

Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Professor Part of International Research Group Refuting Popular Theory

In 1996, marine geologists William Ryan and Walter Pitman published a scientifically popular hypothesis, titled Noah's Flood Hypothesis. The researchers presented evidence of a bursting flood about 7,500 years ago in what is now the Black Sea. This, some say, supports the biblical story of Noah and the flood.

But, such a forceful flood could not have taken place, says Jun Abrajano, professor of earth and environmental sciences at Rensselaer. He is part of an international team of scientists who refute the so-called Noah's Flood Hypothesis.

Abrajano cites evidence of a much more gradual rising of the Black Sea that began to occur 10,000 years ago and continued for 2,000 years.

According to the Noah's Flood Hypothesis, the Black Sea was a freshwater lake separated from the Mediterranean Sea by a narrow strip of land now broken by the Bosporus Strait. Ryan and Pittman argue that the Mediterranean broke through the land and inundated the Black Sea with more than 200 times the force of Niagara Falls. The salty powerful flood swiftly killed the freshwater mollusks in the Black Sea. This, they say, accounts for fossil remains that can be dated back 7,500 years.

Abrajano's team has challenged the theory by studying sediments from the Marmara Sea, which sits next to the Black Sea and opens into the Mediterranean.

The team found a rich mud, called sapropel in the Marmara. The mud provides evidence that there has been sustained interaction between the Mediterranean and the Black Sea for at least 10,000 years.

"For the Noah's Ark Hypothesis to be correct, one has to speculate that there was no flowing of water between the Black Sea and the Marmara Sea before the speculated great deluge," says Abrajano. "We have found this to be incorrect."

GSA (Geological Society of America) Today magazine recently published a paper in its May 2002 edition based on Abrajano's research. His research also will be published this year in Marine Geology, an international science journal.

For a map of the area go to http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/maps/tu-map.jpg


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: blacksea; blackseaflood; catastrophism; grandcanyon; greatflood; junabrajano; noah; noahsflood; walterpitman; williamryan
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To: Tai_Chung
However, you believe Ryan & Pitman are correct. Do you believe the flood was not global and not sudden?

What's all this obsession I'm reading about R&P trying to prove the Bible wrong? If one looks at the book, one finds that they simply suggested that the Black Sea flood may have contributed to the flood stories existing in the entire region within a thousand miles of the Black Sea.

As for the theory of a sudden flood, there is a great deal of evidence for it, and only this latest research in the Sea of Marmara against it. I don't see it as terribly significant.

21 posted on 06/14/2002 8:29:54 AM PDT by jimtorr
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To: babble-on
The fact that an olive branch was brought back proves the world was not completely covered by the waters; it takes years for an olive tree to grow.
22 posted on 06/14/2002 8:31:13 AM PDT by Junior
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To: Junior; babble-on
40 days underwater wouldn't remove all vegetation. As a matter of fact, if you look at God's reason for the flood (to eliminate evil men), it's clear He did not intend to destroy the trees, etc.
23 posted on 06/14/2002 8:49:58 AM PDT by HeadOn
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To: gdani
Insects are not listed among the 'kinds' taken onboard the ark. Many insects breed in water anyway, or can float on water or tiny bits of debris. A flood will not wipe them out in any case.

If you are talking about birds, mammals, and reptiles, I beleive there are about 30,000 species worldwide alive today. Subtract from that those that are water-adapted, mix in the idea speciation occurs when one group splits into two with a loss of information in the gene pool let's estimate how many species would actually have to have been on board. Your guess is as good as mine, 10,000 maybe?

That is not an impossible number. And for every large animal there are many small ones, so that the average size might be close to a chicken. I've seen one chicken house that had that many animals in it, and one family care for four or five such houses. The reptiles can go much longer without care, one good meal can keep a snake going for months, and many animals can hibernate or estivate.

If Noah's ark is a fable, it is NOT because it the science demands it be.

24 posted on 06/14/2002 8:50:41 AM PDT by Ahban
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To: Tai_Chung
Your argument is misplaced. For starters who knows where the flood actually occured. And while you may not like to hear this the Bible is not exactly accurate. Faith is not the same as logical argument or physical proof.
25 posted on 06/14/2002 8:54:07 AM PDT by willyone
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To: Vladiator
The world as known to these people. Their horizons did not include much more than probably a few days travel from home. On foot or horseback so the distances were not great.
26 posted on 06/14/2002 8:57:57 AM PDT by willyone
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To: willyone; Vladiator
Don't be too quick to come to that conclusion. There is archeological (or would that be geological?) evidence of a cataclysmic flood all over the world.
27 posted on 06/14/2002 9:01:20 AM PDT by HeadOn
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To: RaceBannon
Now it becomes more apparent where the insanity of the Islamists comes from. Like you they claim to have their Gods ear and to know his heart. I seem to remember pride and arrogance being among the seven deadly sins. Surely one who claims to know Gods mind is arrogant indeed.
28 posted on 06/14/2002 9:01:28 AM PDT by willyone
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To: HeadOn
As a matter of fact, if you look at God's reason for the flood (to eliminate evil men),

...to say nothing of their evil infants and children...

29 posted on 06/14/2002 9:03:13 AM PDT by Physicist
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To: Junior
The fact that an olive branch was brought back proves the world was not completely covered by the waters; it takes years for an olive tree to grow.

Gen 8:11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth. (KJV)

Lets get our facts strait....big difference between a branch and a leaf...

Olive trees have a long life and are believed to live 300 to 600 years but perhaps even longer. Even when its trunk and branches may die (such as being killed by a flood), the olive tree sprouts once again bringing life into a new tree.

It would only take a very short time for a new leaf to be produced from a sprout once the flood water receded.

30 posted on 06/14/2002 9:05:48 AM PDT by OldDominion
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To: Physicist
It is the belief of most Christians that infants and children go straight to God's arms.

Our frame of reference is that, if you belong to God, if you will be with Christ when you die, then death is better than life.

If your frame of reference is such that death is bad no matter what, you have a point, but with someone like me, you don't. I'm explaining here, not criticizing.

31 posted on 06/14/2002 9:09:29 AM PDT by HeadOn
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To: HeadOn
Don't be too quick to come to that conclusion. There is archeological (or would that be geological?) evidence of a cataclysmic flood all over the world.

There physically isn't enough water on Earth to do it. And if somehow it happened anyway, 100,000 years would not suffice for its effects to be overcome.

Frankly, it's embarrassing to see adults seriously entertain the notion of a worldwide flood as a historical fact.

32 posted on 06/14/2002 9:11:16 AM PDT by Physicist
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To: Tai_Chung
>>Haha, Who do you believe, Ryan & Pitman or God?<<

Me, I believe God.

33 posted on 06/14/2002 9:14:05 AM PDT by SerpentDove
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To: Tai_Chung
Are you talking about the Catholic bible, or the non-Catholic bible?
34 posted on 06/14/2002 9:14:27 AM PDT by stuartcr
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To: HeadOn
Our frame of reference is that, if you belong to God, if you will be with Christ when you die, then death is better than life.

According to the Bible, these kids were stained with the original sin, and therefore bound for hell. This was before the absolution that was supposed to flow from the death of Christ, so there's no help for it.

If your frame of reference is such that death is bad no matter what, you have a point, but with someone like me, you don't.

So your position on abortion is...?

35 posted on 06/14/2002 9:15:42 AM PDT by Physicist
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To: willyone
And while you may not like to hear this the Bible is not exactly accurate

I believe the Bible is 100% accurate. I believe the words are inspired by God. The Bible is the word of God.

I don't believe a person can be a Christian and reject the Bible. I don't believe accepting only 80% or 90% of the scriptures is God's will. The Bible is not a cafeteria plan. The whole Bible is the truth.

36 posted on 06/14/2002 9:16:44 AM PDT by Tai_Chung
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To: Tai_Chung
I believe the Bible is 100% accurate.

In two places it gives the value of pi as being 3.0, to two significant digits. Do you believe that?

37 posted on 06/14/2002 9:19:46 AM PDT by Physicist
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To: HeadOn
40 days underwater wouldn't remove all vegetation. As a matter of fact, if you look at God's reason for the flood (to eliminate evil men), it's clear He did not intend to destroy the trees, etc

According to the Bible, the Flood covered the entire earth for about a year. Any flood of that magnitude would indeed strip all vegetation from the earth. That amount of vegetation under the pressure of so much water and earth churn is likely where the present day off-shore coal deposits came from.

38 posted on 06/14/2002 9:20:24 AM PDT by OldDominion
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To: MEGoody
"....It was a big boat. As I recall, someone once 'did the math' and proclaimed that it was, indeed, possible to hold two of each animal....."

Lest we forget, only land animals needed to apply. All other seagoing and many air species were largely unaffected.

39 posted on 06/14/2002 9:20:39 AM PDT by Victor
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To: aculeus
I think using the Bible as a scientific text is as silly as using a scientific text as the Bible.
40 posted on 06/14/2002 9:20:55 AM PDT by jrherreid
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