FReep Report on hearing of Pennsylvania Homeschool Law

Vanity | 6/13/02 | ArGee

[ArGee]

I attended a public hearing on Pennsylvania HB 2560, a new law which would significantly reduce government control of home schooling in PA. There were, perhaps, 800 in attendance (I've never been very good at such things). This was a hearing for the House Education Committee, not a public forum, so we were only there to listen. Here are my observations, for those who are interested:

• There were supposed to be two panels. One was to start at 10:00 and end at 11:00. the other was to start at 12:00 and end at 1:00. The first panel ended at 12:15. It consisted of an attorney from the Home School Legal Defense Association, a member of the National Home School Research Institute, a school superintendant, and a school board member. I'm sorry I don't have all the names.

• There were about 40 representatives listening to the testimony. Of those, perhaps 6 were not white males. Most of the questions hostile to the new law came from those 6. I have no idea what the party affiliation breakdown is.

• Those who supported HB 2560 were supposed to wear red. Those who were opposed were supposed to wear blue. The audience was comprised of perhaps 5-10% people in blue. The rest were in red.

• The audience was reminded that they were welcome to listen, but they were not participants. We were asked not to applaud, etc. It was hard to avoid applauding when the HSLDA attorney said, "These people are here for one thing - freedom!" However, most of the time we behaved ourselves. The most obvious violation came when one of the committee members pointed out the importance of education, telling us that prisons are full of people who didn't get a good education. An audience member shouted out, "They all went to public schools!" He was shushed by his neighbors, but the point was heard throughout the hall.
• This bill has to do with home schools. Naturally, there were lots of kids there. They were not at all disruptive. Some participated, others did school work. All got a touch of education into our political process.
• Although there was a lot of good information (I'll get to that later) in the first panel and a lot of questions asked of them, it was not contentious. It took 1:15 longer than was alloted, but it was respectful.
• I did not hear the list of everyone who was on the second panel, and I could not stay until the end of their testimony. The first two I heard were in favor of the new law. One was full of statistics (again, I'll get to information later). The next talked about the burden of the PA law compared to other states. She actually choked up when she talked about how hard it is to home school in this state, but she got control and was able to finish. The third was a woman who has home schooled for a long time here, and plans to home school for a long time more. She focused on the benefits of the current law and asked that we not gut it with the new one. Then a man spoke who was clearly only trying to protect a non-profit business he had formed to support home schoolers. I know it's not his fault that his voice was whiny, but it didn't help because all he was doing was whining. I was a little embarassed to be associated with him as a fellow home schooler. When he said, "This law will be a Statue of Liberty for dropouts" the audience laughed at him. That was when I left. Hopefully someone else can fill us in on the end of the meeting.

Here are some of the more interesting quotes I heard, in random order:

• One representative actually told us that he was concerned that this law would codify that parents would be free to teach their children according to their religious beliefs. He pointed out that religious beliefs are used to justify racism. The panelist pointed out that this law simply codified protections we already had under the constitution.
• The HSLDA lawyer pointed out that the only state in the nation that has as highly regulated a home school environment is New York, and they are "on the verge of changing their law."
• The school board representative actually said, "Freedom is wonderful, and we all support it, but..." I don't even remember what came after the "but..." since the red-alert warning was going off in my head. Hello! They want to take your freedoms away. Heellllllooooooooo!
• One rep. asked the school superintendant, "What percentage of home school parents are dedicated and committed in your district?" She answered, "99%." He then asked, "What percentage of the parents of the public school children are dedicated and committed?" She answered, "Probably not that high." At least she was honest.
• One representative said, "What we see here are bureaucrats of public education vs. parents who want to educat their children." A little later he said, "There must be more important things for us to do than bothering these people (indicating the audience)." (Yes, he got applause for that line.)
• Those who spoke in favor of HB 2560 tended to talk about government 'control.' Those who spoke against HB 2560 tended to talk about 'accountability.'
• The attorney pointed out that the Supreme Court of the U.S. has upheld the principle that parents are presumed to be acting in the best interests of their children. He also said there is no legal framework to sue a school for malpractice in education, but if someone who is home schooled isn't teaching their kids you can bring them up for violating compulsary attendance. Home schoolers are actually more accountable than public educators.
• The woman with all the statistics said that school districts spend $5 million a year reviewing the work of home schoolers. They only wind up questioning .09% of them. Hardly a good ROI.
• Here in PA we have to submit a notarized affidavit every year saying that we will comply with the home schooling law. One woman wanted to know why that wasn't enough? She asked, "Why do we then have to submit all this proof that we are complying with the law. They are assuming we are liars."
• Several times the point was made that, "under current law people are guilty until proven innocent." The attorney pointed out that it was illegal to use drugs, but that didn't mean that someone could demand regular drug tests of every citizen. You have to have probably cause to investigate illegal drug use. In the same way, parents should be presumed to be complying with the cumpulsary attendance law unless there is probable cause to believe otherwise.

Those are my observations. Did anyone else attend?

[Domestic Church]

Several have had to get rid of computer viruses after debating there...there is some very nasty stuff going on.

[WIMom]

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[Domestic Church]

That should be co-ordinator (need sleep badly here.)

[mountaineer]

thanks for the excellent report. I'll pass it along to my sister, who teaches her 6-year-old using the Pa. virtual charter school program (any of you other Pa. homeschoolers familiar with it?)

[twyn1]

That's Dr. Richmann you insensitive, undeucated, undiplomaed boob!

Oh... I'm sooo sorry, have I insulted the great Doctor? *snobbery and sarcasm* twyn1

[valkyrieanne]

One of the panel members was proud - PROUD of the fact that it would only cost her about $315 (in cash) to home school each child. But what does she get for that $315? The Commonwealth will force her to comply with their rules, but they won't issue a diploma or certificate of completion or anything. All she gets for her $315 is the right to be left alone by the School District.

I think under other circumstances that's called a "protection racket."

[Jerrybob]

Isn't it interesting: whenever people rise up and "take to the streets", it's always to get government off their backs and out of their lives. Is it too much to ask that government stay out of our lives? Apparently so.

[ArGee]

need sleep badly here.

I recommend sleeping well. ;)

Shalom.

[ArGee]

thanks for the excellent report. I'll pass it along to my sister, who teaches her 6-year-old using the Pa. virtual charter school program (any of you other Pa. homeschoolers familiar with it?)

One witness testified that the difficulties in the current PA law drove some people to the cyberschools. And while homeschooling reduces the cost to the commonwealth, cyberschools increase the cost to the commonwealth. She suggested that improving the homeschool climate would reduce the need for the cyberschools and improve the financial situation for public education.

Shalom.

[ArGee]

I think under other circumstances that's called a "protection racket."

I realized this morning that much of the concern of the establishment if HB 2560 is passed is that some people might violate the cumpulsary attendance law and use home schooling as a shield. I agree that could happen. But Chris Klicka of the HSLDA testified of over 300,000 cases where government agents were violating the cumpulsary attendance laws when the home schooling law didn't specifically allow freedom.

Which is scarier, citizens that violate the law or government agents? I know which scares me more.

Shalom.

[Tired of Taxes]

Best wishes to all of you homeschooling in PA. I hope everything works out for you.

Across the bridge in NJ, we can homeschool to our heart's content. I only had one problem with an idiotic principal who thought he'd try to intimidate me by threatening truancy charges. Fortunately, the law is on our side here.

Regarding the "religious racism" remark: So far we have found that to be untrue. IMHO, there's more racism in public schools.

[ArGee]

Regarding the "religious racism" remark: So far we have found that to be untrue. IMHO, there's more racism in public schools.

There was a whole lot of "but if you change the law, wouldn't this happen?" kind of questioning. Those idiots only have to visit about 40 states to see that giving freedom to homeschoolers works. I'm glad you live in one of them. I used to live in another.

Most parents can be trusted with their children far more than educrats can.

Shalom.

[Domestic Church]

"...if HB 2560 is passed is that some people might violate the compulsory attendance law and use home schooling as a shield."

The statistic .09%(from the PDE) was in one the testimonies as the actual number of the total PA home educated population the state has had to deal with regarding inappropriate education...and that was referenced as being so small that it was a statistical outlier...the % is too small to be considered a problem by any stretch of the imagination.

[Kay in Carlisle]

Thank you for putting this meeting synopsis up in this forum. I am a new poster so forgive my mistakes.

The HB2560 Hearing was fantastic. If this bill goes no where, the legislature of PA now know how committed we, the homeschooling community are in this matter.

The Forum building in HBG holds 1700.. I believe that there were between 1300 and 1500 people there. The audience although empassioned were quite well behaved and overwhemlingly of the red team. -The blue team should have picked another color, they just blended in with the seats!-

All the posts about the panelists and legislators are true to form, including the whining from Mr. (excuse me DR) Richmond. Seeing a grown man whine/cry over loss of his business is sad to see. And then to see him turn on a fellowhomeschooler (Maryalice N.) over a broad comment about buying diplomas, because he took it personally.. It would take class to say "that may be true of others, but not our program", alas he lacked class.

Now if we can move some of the minds of the legislators from "public school" mantra to the "freedom" mindset of homeschoolers and homeschooling. We are a very different breed of folk.

Kay in Carlisle

[ArGee]

The statistic .09%(from the PDE) was in one the testimonies as the actual number of the total PA home educated population the state has had to deal with regarding inappropriate education...and that was referenced as being so small that it was a statistical outlier...the % is too small to be considered a problem by any stretch of the imagination.

Not to mention that it costs the commonwealth $5 million to find that 0.09%. It doesn't take long to find out from actual data that homeschooling is not a "statue of liberty for dropouts." That's just emotional scare tactics from people who are afraid of losing control.

Shalom.

[Domestic Church]

"He's an elitist who demands a lot of useless stuff rather than a valuable education."

I heard he used the global village bit recently on his message board... to quote and anonymous home educator "it takes a village idiot to think I want the government to raise my child." That whole *blue* bunch have always struck me as modern nazis and their use of verbal smears to maintain the status quo which reaps him (educated guess) hundreds of thousands and deters and discriminates against the rest of the PA HS community is reprehensible. He is a satrap.

[ArGee]

That whole *blue* bunch have always struck me as modern nazis

Since I don't know many of them (I was surprised to see someone I recognized wearing blue - although I don't know her too well) I won't go as far as you. But I'm always amazed at how quick they are to suggest that the only reason they are doing a good job in homeschooling their children is because the law forces them too. I moved here from Texas where the law didn't force me to do a good job, but I still did more than the PA law requires - just less paperwork.

Or maybe they believe they would still do a good job, it's just those other homeschoolers who can't be trusted dontcha know. What they mean by that is they know how to do it right and anyone who doesn't do it the same way is doing a bad job. Perhaps they should become educrats - they have the mindset.

Shalom.

[valkyrieanne]

I realized this morning that much of the concern of the establishment if HB 2560 is passed is that some people might violate the cumpulsary attendance law and use home schooling as a shield.

Irony of ironies! How much violation of the compulsory education law is found among *public school students?* How much does the state pay per annum to track down truants? A lot, I'll bet.

[Domestic Church]

Well this is what they are spending(conservative figure too) on the .09% according to MaryAlice Newborne's Testimony :

"The current home education law is an unfunded mandate on the already financially drained public school systems. The monitoring of paperwork and micromanaging home educators costs the School Districts approximately $5 Million per year . In 2000, after looking over paperwork for over 23,000 students, the superintendents questioned the education of only 0.09% of the home educated population. Financially, this equates to spending over $220,000 per inappropriate education finding."

Heads up to the taxpayers of Pennsylvania!

[Domestic Church]

A while back I had heard that they were going to try to get this passed this year. Any word on that?

We want to get this out of the education committee and onto the floor for a vote over the next 2 weeks. Please bookmark that lobby site as we will put updates there.