Posted on 06/10/2002 7:30:38 AM PDT by Dales
Breaking now. Details shortly
This illegal combatant has been a citizen since the day he was born. He was born in Brooklyn, NY 31 years ago. At four years of age he moved to Chicago. He has been a citizen his entire life.
You should explain that to the FBI because they have been using profiling as an major investigative tool since their inception and have been raised profiling to a scientific art in the last 20 some years.
Excuse me, but what did I say to deserve that kind of reaction from you?
I would tell you if I could find your original post to refresh my memory. Apparently someone else found it offensive as well as the moderator removed it.
Believe me, the FBI knows it. Profiling for terrorists is little more than panacea for the masses.
What planet have you been on since 9/11?
Then that name Padillo, someone on this or another thread stated that Terry Nichols ex wife's name was Padilla. HMMMMMM. strange indeed, as is a lot of the OKC bombing that was covered up.
The FBI and CIA are in deep doodoo at the present time for not working together, not recognizing potential terrorist activity when it is hitting them in the face, covering up, etc.
So, they arrest some poor schnuck on trumped-up charges, and then do a big media blitz on it to impress the American Public."
I suppose you think the guys who flew the planes into the WTC, The Pentagon, caused the deaths of all the passengers on the plane in Pennsylvania, and cut off Daniel Pearls head were all "poor schnuck"'s too?
Father in heaven help us all!!!
Do you think it is possible, that there have been numerous attempts thwarted in America that just may have saved lives?? Is that a possibility? Or do you think every law enforcement person, every one in a position of authority is evil? AND FORBID THAT ANYONE WORK FOR THE DREADED GOVERNMENT!!! Why, thats a sure sign they are evil, right?
If you want to see evil incarnate.. go look at the video of Daniel Pearl being executed. While watching, realize that you're listening to his last words. Look at his face, the face of an American who appears to be excited, (probably had just been told if he spoke he would be released immediately, God Bless him!!) and tell me that what follows isn't the TRUE evil. Maybe the showing of that video will open some eyes. Allow rational thought to take place in the mind of a people who have been cowardly and had thier heads in the sand. I won't hold my breath though!! (It's on the Boston Pheonix Newspapers site)
I suppose you think the people serving in the Military are evil too? Out to get ya?
Do you think all the FBI, CIA, and all other Govt. Employee's are evil incarnate too?
Who are the real enemies here UCANTSEE?
I say the REAL enemy is ignorance.
IMHO
I explained I had not read the news article. I further said that I was basing my view on recent information about the FBI and CIA being incompetent, lying, covering up. If you choose to believe they have not been doing so, well, go right ahead. You have a big hill to climb. All I saw was a claim they stopped some terrorist plans, with nothing really to back it up. Then again, how do you prove something like this?
I suppose you think the guys who flew the planes into the WTC, The Pentagon, caused the deaths of all the passengers on the plane in Pennsylvania, and cut off Daniel Pearls head were all "poor schnuck"'s too?
Absolutely not. These were real events.
Do you think it is possible, that there have been numerous attempts thwarted in America that just may have saved lives?? Is that a possibility?
It is very possible. Some attempts may have been thwarted by CIA,FBI,Customs Agents, regular LEO's or even private citizens.
Or do you think every law enforcement person, every one in a position of authority is evil? AND FORBID THAT ANYONE WORK FOR THE DREADED GOVERNMENT!!! Why, thats a sure sign they are evil, right?
I think every one in a position of authority has to be watched for misuse and abuse of that authority and power that they are GIVEN by the citizens of the US to use, not abuse. Just because we monitor or suspect some people in government are abusing power, misusing their office, doesn't imply that ALL are that way. Only you said that.
You mentioned Daniel Pearl being killed on video ....and tell me that what follows isn't the TRUE evil.
Is this the EVIL from the concept of EVIL in the BIBLE? So, tell me, Your screen-name would imply you are veterans of war. So was my father. I am very proud of him. I am proud of your service to our country. I reject what they did to Daniel Pearl as being wrong. They believed he was a spy, they believed they are doing to Americans what Americans are doing to their people. In their eyes, they are morally and religiously right.
Have you actually fought in war? Did you kill the enemy ? GOD says, in the BIBLE, THOU SHALT NOT MURDER. He didn't say MOST OF THE TIME, or DURING WAR IT's OK. HE SAID NO. So, if you believe in the BIBLE and you killed people, you are going against your religion. In the religion of the enemy that killed Pearl, it is OK to kill your enemy.
So who is right and who is wrong ? Who is a hypocrit? You know that is why some in other countries do not respect us. We say we are religious, and follow our religions, and then we go out and KILL,KILL,KILL, bomb innocents, take away farmland, give tons of money and weapons to the criminals or the sheiks or whatever, and let the people of those lands starve to death
Now, before you get mad, I want you to understand that I am not attacking you nor our way of life and protecting our country. You brought up Daniel Pearl and EVIL to throw in my face, so turnabout is fair play.
I suppose you think the people serving in the Military are evil too? Out to get ya?
Nope, not at all. My son is in the NAVY, too, and I am very proud of him.
Do you think all the FBI, CIA, and all other Govt. Employee's are evil incarnate too?
I think that government is an organization set up by our Constitution and Bill of Rights that we give certain powers to and place human beings into those positions of power. That government then must be monitored and controlled. Those human beings in positions of power are not perfect beings and will act imperfectly. They will be attracted to power and wealth which can be obtained by abusing the powers they have been given. They will assume they are the power and try to remove our monitoring and control. We must not allow that.
Who are the real enemies here UCANTSEE?
The real enemies are those who become close-minded. Because someone participates in the military, they think the military does no wrong. Because they have a brother in LEO, they think police do no wrong. They will not monitor and control the offices of goverment, they accept what the government tells them and that's it. They hate anyone that questions them or the government.
IT IS OUR RIGHT AND DUTY TO QUESTION THE GOVERMENT. Or had you forgotten this ?
I say the REAL enemy is ignorance.
I agree with you completely. And the hardest IGNORANCE in the world to see, for any of us, IS OUR OWN. (from the Bible, you want to remove the splinter from my eye, but can not see the log in your own).
BOTTOM LINE: Did this guy they arrested have plans to do a terrorist attack? Did 'we' disrupt those plans. I hope we did. I hope we are getting better at detecting and stopping these attacks. We should be, we have had all the warning in the world, years to get prepared, a devastating loss of life to make sure it sank in. BUT AM I GONNA BUY into some press release from the government, just because they want me to think they are doing a good job. No. I must see proof. I am from the show me state and that is the way it is.
As to the death of Danny Pearl.. did you see the video? Can you honestly believe that anyone would do that to a prisoner of the USA?? COME ON!!
Whew.. I WILL answer you.. but it won't be tonight.
As to war.. yes we did serve during Vietnam. And yes, we've seen death. One of us even carried out our wounded, and then helped in the hospitals as our troops lost legs and limbs. Carried back the dead, so they could be buried honorably. One of us was shot down in Nam. One of us worked with the walking dead.. our returning POW's.
I have been in the Pentagon in the MCC room. A privledge reserved for our Nations highest in authority. Not everyone, not even some extremely high ranking Military or Congressmen/women get the honor of doing that. I do have a pretty good idea of what the MAJORITY of our good people do for this country. I'm proud of them all. AS human nature will have it.. there are a few bad people. But you know what? MOST, and I mean MOST, 99 and 9/10ths are honorable, decent and good. We are blessed as a Nation to have them.
Now that we are un-tying their collective hands.. we will see them ABLE to do more.
Your from the "show me state".. well I'm from the "Seen it STATE!". And I will trust our Government .. I feel sad that you can't seem to do the same. But I can assure you.. we know many of these fine men and women who are serving in many capacities for this country, and we are lucky to have them.
Sad you can't comprehend that fact,..but would rather feel pity for these animals who would do us all harm. I just never will get your way of thinking,.. it is dumbfounding!
MORE TOMORROW regarding WAR, and how it is sanctioned by God for Nations to act morally, and to defend it's people. In otherwords,.. we are the good guys "UCANSEE2" (if you really tried.)
FRegards,..and goodnight.
Exactly. Doesn't mean it isn't true, that this guy was training for this. Sounds like he didn't get too far. Which is good. But I think that Ashcroft is trying to make old shoes look good with some spit and polish.
I do not. Once again, let me reiterate what I was saying. This poor schuck, is being used as an example. I did go back and read the news releases and the posts,replies by everyone. Many think the same way I do. This Jose Padilla is a terrorist. He was training to commit a terrorist act. He is a US citizen. I think they should just shoot him.
He was arrested a month ago. He was only caught because the one of the high ranking Al Quada in GITMO spilt the beans.
HE DID NOT YET MAKE A BOMB NOR HAVE IT ON HIM. But the government would like you to think so. WHY? Because they are looking like fools. They keep making major mistakes. We have tons of intelligence gathering teams and they can't put 2 + 2 together. Their latest 'scam' was crying that they couldn't decipher intel info cause they didn't have any arabic speaking employees.
Yeah, I guess nobody would have guessed we would ever need Arabic speaking FBI or CIA agents, cause we only got involved in the middle east this year. RIGHT ???????
Had we ignored the info given to us by the Al Quada prisoner, and not arrested this particulat man, he COULD HAVE carried out his plan. HE POTENTIALLY could have. Of course, he didn't have the necessary materials for this yet.
SO, Ashcroft is MAKING A BIG DEAL out of this TO COVER THE GOVERNMENTS ASS, and to SET A PRECEDENT for handling these types of situations.
I think you are confusing BLIND ALLEGIANCE TO GOVERNMENT with PATRIOTISM. I believe in the 2nd, and never will go with the first. YOU DO AS YOU CHOOSE, that also is your right.
If you wish to ignorantly (as you so succintly stated) follow government leaders that tell you it's raining while they are peeing on your leg, go ahead.
If you choose to stand up for your rights, defend your fellow countrymen, then we are standing together.
I don't think there is a way you can convince me to blindly accept all actions (and people) of the government as truthful/honest/for my own good.
You can't convince me you really don't know the difference between piss and rain. I can't believe that someone that has had to fight for his country and seen the corruption in our government would want others to blindly follow. You weren't taught to walk through enemy territory with your eyes close, now were you.
So in your "opinion" we need a body count before arresting anyone? Tell that to those charged with conspiracy to commit murder. You my friend have a real problem with basic common sense. You also have the "I could do it better" attitude shared by every 3rd string bench sitter that ever lived.
Understand this. I am not trying to get into a war with you and your wife over this. You started it by making personal attacks.
I am only trying to defend my position.
I think we got off the subject of this thread. Many posters on here seem to gobble up the hype, DID YOU NOTICE THAT?
They were asking questions like HOW SOON WAS THE BOMB SET TO GO OFF, HOW CLOSE DID HE GET, etc. They were all ready to believe that some guy walked into O'hare with plutonium in his shorts. The government designed the press release to allow 'suckers' to fall into this belief.
The more intelligent take time to read and investigate the information. Some people, who have become increasingly paranoid because of the governments past practices, suspected this as an attempt to provide cover for the current investigations into FBI/CIA policies/practices.
I agree with you that if you are a 'good' person, most of the people you know/meet/work with are 'good' people. BUT, you can't assume that all are because of that. IF TRUE, we wouldn't need prisons. WE WOULDN'T have INVESTIGATIONS into FBI and CIA going on this very minute.
I am really only concerned that the gov't is taking credit for something they lucked onto ( and some of the intel we got from this guy in GITMO has been BS. This Jose Padilla could be a pawn. I.E. someone low on the Al Qauda they would turn in because they weren't really productive for the Al Quada)
They are using it to set a precedent also. They have even admitted that part, and there is nothing wrong with that.
So, help me out here. Exactly what is your take on this thread?
Here's mine.
To the men that captured the Al Quada and put them in GITMO prison, I SALUTE YOU.
To the men that questioned and got this information, I SALUTE YOU.
To the people that arrested this Jose Padilla, I SALUTE YOU.
To all the fine human beings in state,local, federal government, and all branches of the military, I SALUTE YOU.
To all those in government positions that are incompetent,crooked, liars, giving away U.S. secrets, or using inside information to manipulate purchases on the stock market and get rich , FOAD.
I was saying the press release was written to try and get people to 'just accept' that the government caught someone with a bomb, and they saved our lives. Let's all give them a big hand !
The fact he didn't have any bomb doesn't mean I think he should go free. I said the government was taking a low-level, largely untrained, not ready yet, didn't have the materials terrorist, and trying to act like his capture was a MAJOR ACCOMPLISHMENT to cover for their current RASH OF BAD PRESS over major mistakes. AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
If you don't understand that, then You my friend have a real problem with basic common sense. (to use your own words).
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