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Breaking: John Ashcroft says U.S. disrupted plans to attack U.S. with "dirty" radiation bomb.

Posted on 06/10/2002 7:30:38 AM PDT by Dales

Breaking now. Details shortly


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: ashcroft; dirtybombplot; padilla
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To: E Rocc, Sabertooth, Joe Hadenuf, Squantos, Travis McGee, all, Miss Marple
Easy to say when one isn't one of those to be "profiled".

LOL...you didn't read my musings which started my entry to this thread did you?

But you are right. I'm less concerned about "discrimination" and "diversity appreciation" and "tolerance" and "hate" and all those other PC codewords which I scorn while we're trying to win a war against an enemy that has infiltrated us completely and targets our highest concentration of civilians possible on purpose......and all in the name of their religion. Meanwhile we have FReepers wringing their hands over sensibilities. Man....we are going to have to get whacked over the head a few more times till we nut up. Sadly a huge number of American innocents will die to protect the naive sentiments of a few Pollyannas.

541 posted on 06/10/2002 11:26:36 AM PDT by wardaddy
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To: Sabertooth
ah yer right, tooth, I think I did hear Aloha Ronnie call in once, prob either George or Hugh ... if he was RD we'd known it for sure!
I STAND CORRECTED, - SIR!
542 posted on 06/10/2002 11:26:59 AM PDT by Republicus2001
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To: mercy
Once upon a time the FBI had every subversive organization in America infiltrated. And the CIA was actually able to find it's butt with both hands. We need to reinvigorate these agencies.

Well, I guess they would be pretty busy considering the following:

"Our government is allowing in almost 8,500 Middle Easterners a MONTH on visas"

That's 8,500 A MONTH!!! This is like playing Russian roulette.

We seem to be bugging all the rooms of the house, yet we continue to leave all the doors and windows, wide open.

543 posted on 06/10/2002 11:27:12 AM PDT by Joe Hadenuf
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To: Dales
And they differ from some of those posting on here that they don't buy this exactly how?

Please explain your post. Unless you're trying to highlight the similarity between some of the arguments put forward by the Oil Konspiracy freaks over on DU with our very own FR Blak Helikpterz Brigade.

In that case, I see what you're saying.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

544 posted on 06/10/2002 11:29:28 AM PDT by section9
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To: wardaddy
How soon some forget, as those giant super structures crashed down, killing almost 3000 people....
545 posted on 06/10/2002 11:30:18 AM PDT by Joe Hadenuf
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To: AZ Righty
Not unless you can provide documentation and evidence that you are correct.
546 posted on 06/10/2002 11:30:19 AM PDT by rwfromkansas
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To: The Great Satan
Anytime Satan....the naivete of some otherwise fine folks alarms me. Some obviously have a PC axe to grind as well.

Profiling and discrimination are a part of war. This is war, some folks simply don't get it. This is not a war over our civil liberties nor our incredibly heightened sense of being non-offensive. It is a war against possibly the most determined and fanatical enemies we have ever faced and they are already inside the gate and have drawn first blood....over and over. Simply incredible that so many Americans lack the stomach for hard measures.

547 posted on 06/10/2002 11:33:40 AM PDT by wardaddy
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To: Thud
Or you could try this link to 'The Radioactive Boy Scout' story:

http://www.findarticles.com/m1111/n1782_v297/21281407/p1/article.jhtml

548 posted on 06/10/2002 11:35:46 AM PDT by Dark Wing
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To: Arizflash
So you're the type to believe everything you're told... So sad...
549 posted on 06/10/2002 11:36:45 AM PDT by AZ Righty
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To: Joe Hadenuf
Yer preachin to the choir brother.
550 posted on 06/10/2002 11:37:37 AM PDT by mercy
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To: mercy
I know that bro...
551 posted on 06/10/2002 11:38:22 AM PDT by Joe Hadenuf
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To: section9
That is the case.
552 posted on 06/10/2002 11:38:22 AM PDT by Dales
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To: PoppingSmoke
Here's the whole thing. I found it with a Google Advanced Search for the exact phrase, "radioactive boy scout".

http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/radscout.html

Note: This article is being reprinted here as an example of what NOT to do with radioactive materials. Please do NOT attempt to recreate any part of these experiments for the following reasons:

You will most likely poison yourself and/or others

Nobody really needs an unsafe homemade reactor (especially one made of duct tape and foil)

If enough people try these dangerous experiments, the government will try to outlaw any sort of legitimate private experiments with radioactivity or possession of any radioactive minerals or materials (thus spoiling all of our fun).

What happened when a teenager tried a dangerous experiment in his back yard

Tale of the Radioactive Boy Scout.

FROM HARPER'S MAGAZINE BY KEN SILVERSTEIN

Golf Manor, a subdivision in Commerce Township, Mich., some 25 miles outside of Detroit, is the kind of place where nothing unusual is supposed to happen, where the only thing lurking around the corner is an ice-cream truck. But June 26, 1995, was not a typical day.

Ask Dottie Pease. Cruising down Pinto Drive, Pease saw half a dozen men crossing her neighbor's lawn. Three, in respirators and white moon suits, were dismantling her next-door neighbor's shed with electric saws, stuffing the pieces into large steel drums emblazoned with radioactive warning signs.

Huddled with a group of neighbors, Pease was nervous. "I was pretty disturbed," she recalls. Publicly, the employees of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) that day said there was nothing to fear. The truth is far more bizarre: the shed was dangerously irradiated and, according to the EPA, up to 40,000 residents of the area could be at risk.

The cleanup was provoked by the boy next door, David Hahn. He had attempted to build a nuclear reactor in his mother's shed following a Boy Scout merit-badge project.

Grander Ambitions

David Hahn's early years were seemingly ordinary. The blond, gangly boy played baseball and soccer, and joined the Boy Scouts. His parents, Ken and Patty, had divorced, and David lived with his father and stepmother, Kathy, in nearby Clinton Township. He spent weekends in Golf Manor with his mother and her boyfriend, Michael Polasek.

An abrupt change came at age ten, when Kathy's father gave David The Golden Book of Chemistry Experiments. David became immersed. By age 12 he had digested his father's college chemistry textbooks; by 14 he had made nitroglycerin.

One night his house in Clinton Township was rocked by an explosion in the basement. Ken and Kathy found David semiconscious on the floor. He had been pounding some substance with a screwdriver and ignited it. He was rushed to the hospital to have his eyes flushed.

Kathy then forbade David from experimenting in her home. So he shifted his operations to his mother's shed in Golf Manor. Neither Patty nor Michael had any idea what the shy teenager was up to, although they thought it was odd that David often wore a mask in the shed, and would sometimes discard his clothing after working there until two in the morning. They chalked it up to their own limited education.

Michael does, however, remember David saying, "One of these days we're gonna run out of oil."

Convinced he needed discipline, David's father, Ken, felt the solution lay in a goal that he didn't himself achieve, Eagle Scout, which requires 21 merit badges. David earned a merit badge in Atomic Energy in May 1991, five months shy of his 15th birthday. By now, though, he had grander ambitions.

Concocted identity

He was determined to irradiate anything he could, and decided to build a neutron "gun." To obtain radioactive materials, David used a number of cover stories and concocted a new identity.

He wrote to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC), claiming to be a physics instructor at Chippewa Valley High School. The agency's director of isotope production and distribution, Donald Erb, offered him tips on isolating and obtaining radioactive elements, and explained the characteristics of some isotopes, which, when bombarded with neutrons, can sustain a chain reaction.

When David asked about the risks, Erb assured him that the "dangers are very slight," since "possession of any radioactive materials in quantities and forms sufficient to pose any hazard is subject to Nuclear Regulatory Commission (or equivalent) licensing."

David learned that a tiny amount of the radioactive isotope americium-241 could be found in smoke detectors. he contacted smoke-detector companies and claimed that he needed a large number for a school project. One company sold him about a hundred broken detectors for a dollar apiece.

Not sure where the americium was located, he wrote to an electronics firm in Illinois. A customer-service representative wrote back to say she'd be happy to help out with "your report." Thanks to her help, David extracted the material. He put the americium inside a hollow block of lead with a tiny hole pricked in one side so that alpha rays would stream out. In front of the block he placed a sheet of aluminum, its atoms absorb alpha rays and kick out neutrons. His neutron gun was ready.

The mantle in gas lanterns, the small cloth pouch over the flame, is coated with a compound containing thorium-232. When bombarded with neutrons it produces uranium-233, which is fissionable. David bought thousands of lantern mantles from surplus stores and blowtorched them into a pile of ash.

To isolate the thorium from the ash, he purchased $1000 worth of lithium batteries and cut them in half with wire cutters. He placed the lithium and thorium ash together in a ball of aluminum foil and heated the ball with a Bunsen burner. This purified the thorium to at least 9000 times the level found in nature, and up to 170 times the level that requires NRC licensing. But David's americium gun wasn't strong enough to transform thorium into uranium.

More Help From the NRC

David held a series of after-school jobs at fast-food joints, grocery stores and furniture warehouses, but work was merely a means of financing his experiments. Never an enthusiastic student, he fell behind in school, scoring poorly on state math and reading tests (he did, however, ace the test in science).

Wanting radium for a new gun, David began visiting junkyards and antique stores in search of radium-coated clocks. He'd chip paint from them and collect it.

It was slow going until one day, while driving through Clinton Township, he says he came across an old table clock in an antique shop. In the hack of the clock he discovered a vial of radium paint. He bought the clock for $10.

Next he concentrated the the radium and dried it into a salt form. Whether he fully realized it or not, he was putting himself in danger.

The NRC's Erb had told him that "nothing produces neutrons from alpha reactions as well as beryllium." David says he had a friend swipe a strip of beryllium from a chemistry lab, then placed it in front of the lead block that held the radium. His cute little americium gun was now a more powerful radium gun.

David had located some pitchblende, an ore containing tiny amounts of uranium, and pulverized it with a hammer. He aimed the gun at the powder, hoping to produce at least some fissionable atoms. It didn't work. The neutron particles, the bullets in his gun, were moving too fast.

To slow them down, he added a filter, then targeted his gun again. This time the uranium powder appeared to grow more radioactive by the day.

"Imminent Danger"

Now 17, David hit on the idea of building a model breeder reactor, a nuclear reactor that not only generates electricity, but also produces new fuel. His model would use the actual radioactive elements and produce real reactions. His blueprint was a schematic in one of his father's textbooks.

Ignoring safety, David mixed his radium and americium with beryllium and aluminum, all of which he wrapped in aluminum foil, forming a makeshift reactor core. He surrounded this radioactive ball with a blanket of small foil-wrapped cubes of thorium ash and uranium powder, tenuously held together with duct tape.

"It was radioactive as heck," David says, "far greater than at the time of assembly." Then he began to realize that he could be putting himself and others in danger.

When David's Geiger counter began picking up radiation five doors from his mom's house, he decided that he had "too much radioactive stuff in one place" and began to disassemble the reactor. He hid some of the material in his mother's house, left some in the shed, and packed most of the rest into the trunk of his Pontiac.

At 2:40 a.m. on August 31, 1994, Clinton Township police responded to a call concerning a young man who had been apparently stealing tires from a car. When the police arrived, David told them he was meeting a friend. Unconvinced, officers decided to search his car.

They opened the trunk and discovered a toolbox shut with a padlock and sealed with duct tape. The trunk also contained foil-wrapped cubes of mysterious gray powder, small disks and cylindrical metal objects, and mercury switches. The police were especially alarmed by the toolbox, which David said was radioactive and which they feared was an atomic bomb.

The discovery eventually triggered the Federal Radiological Emergency Response Plan, and state officials would become involved in consultations with the EPA and NRC.

At the shed, radiological experts found an aluminum pie pan, a Pyrex cup, a milk crate and other materials strewn about, contaminated at up to 1000 times the normal levels of background radiation. Because some of this could be moved around by wind and rain, conditions at the site, according to an EPA memo, "present an imminent endangerment to public health."

After the moon-suited workers dismantled the shed, they loaded the remains into 39 sealed barrels that were trucked to the Great Salt Lake Desert. There, the remains of David's experiments were entombed with other radioactive debris.

"These are conditions that regulations never envision," says Dave Minnaar, radiological expert with Michigan's Department of Environmental Quality. "It's simply presumed that the average person wouldn't have the technology or materials required to experiment in these areas."

David Hahn is now in the Navy, where he reads about steroids, melanin, genetic codes, prototype reactors, amino acids and criminal law. "I wanted to make a scratch in life," he explains now. "I've still got time." Of his exposure to radioactivity he says, "I don't believe I took more than five years off my life."

553 posted on 06/10/2002 11:38:45 AM PDT by Thud
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Comment #554 Removed by Moderator

To: Vets_Husband_and_Wife
Yes, I heard that caller. He said that it is now time for America to be destroyed and be rebuild. He said he was jeopardizing himself by calling in to Fox but just wanted Americans to know that we are still sleeping. He made a statement that even in Rap Music the words are telling America that it is time for it to be destroyed. The caller said that there are thousands here waiting to destroy America and the time is now.

I sure hope Fox has someone or something to trace that call.

555 posted on 06/10/2002 11:43:08 AM PDT by TexKat
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To: Thud
David Hahn is now in the Navy, where he reads about steroids, melanin, genetic codes, prototype reactors, amino acids and criminal law. "I wanted to make a scratch in life," he explains now. "I've still got time." Of his exposure to radioactivity he says, "I don't believe I took more than five years off my life."

I wonder if he went to nuke school...

556 posted on 06/10/2002 11:43:19 AM PDT by Chemist_Geek
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To: Joe Hadenuf
"Yes, you are right cake crumb, lets just continue to leave all the doors and windows open. Why should we bother! Some gray haired old lady will get us anyway"

Ditz. I'M one of the people who wanted the United States to close it's borders immediately and summarily for 6 months to a year following 9-11.

I believe in profiling. There are a few too many LEO's in my family for me not to. We profile vehicles, we profile people fitting the description of perps. When necessary, our law enforcement is sometimes reduced to "profiling" luggage or clothing or hats.

I am TELLING you that it is not the MIRACLE CURE some people seem to believe it is. It WILL fail. Odds are that it will fail. Then the people who have been yelling that that kicking out all Arabs is the only solution to terrorism will be yelling because the government didn't do whatever THEY think it might have done in hindsight to prevent the attack which occurred when that statictical chance of failure bacomes fact. I'm YELLING BECAUSE NO MATTER WHAT THE GOVERNMENT DOES TO STOP TERRORISM, IT IS NEVER GOO ENOUGH FOR SOME PEOPLE! IT IS NEVER RIGHT! WE ARREST SOMEBODY AND SOME PEOPLE YELL "TOTALITARIANISM." WE ANNUNCE A CHANGE OF STATUS DUE TO (IMPORTANT) NEW INFORMATION, AND IT'S "A CONSPIRACY." A FEW WEEKS OF SLOW NEWS, AND THE GOVERNMENT ISN'T TOTALITARIAN, IT'S USELESS! IT ALWAYS SEEMS TO BE THE SAME FEW PEOPLE.

In the interest of saving bandwidth...</RANT OFF>

557 posted on 06/10/2002 11:43:27 AM PDT by cake_crumb
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To: cake_crumb
A war is where you invade your enemy's country and crush him. This is in no measure what happened in Ashcanistan ... a small proxy dustup by any account. In a war you stop the enemy from freely entering your own country to kill and mame your own citizens. This is no war.
558 posted on 06/10/2002 11:44:25 AM PDT by mercy
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To: Thud
"according to an EPA memo, "present an imminent endangerment to public health."

Just slightly. So much for myths.....

559 posted on 06/10/2002 11:44:46 AM PDT by PoppingSmoke
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To: Thud;harpseal;wardaddy;Squantos
I hope that David Hahn is working in a physics lab where his talents can serve the country!
560 posted on 06/10/2002 11:48:27 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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