MAKING PREDATORS (Gays In Seminaries)

Oh, dear Lord.

Oh hell. This sort of thing makes me look up the number of my local Christian Orthodox church.

Mother Church is losing me slowly but surely - each revelation distances me further.

Regards, Ivan

Mt. 7:15-19.

Don't abandon ship just yet. Seems every century the Church has to 'clean out the cockroaches'. We just have many more Judases around now. (and the protestants are not immune to attacks from within either).

This is the way the Homosexual movement has taken over every facet of America today.This is not only in the Catholic Church.This is the largest movement in America today and it will lead to the demise of America and the Catholic Church if not stopped.You cannot go a day or even a few hours for that matter without seeing this movement in action.Both America and the Catholic Church are covering for this immoral movement and the schools in our country are now accepting it.All I can say is remember Soddom & Gommorah!

The church's problem runs even wider and deeper than presented in this book excerpt.

If you go to ctnow.com and check out today's article on the subject you will see how liberal nuns are trying to pretend homosexuality in the church is not the problem and those same liberal nuns are "militant" and want a greater role for lay people, particularly women (as if the church is not feminized enough, already). As has been covered in other posts the activist "lay people" are often flaming liberals who will only dig a deeper hole for the church.

I am not a Catholic so my views may not hold much weight--but I believe it is time for the conservatives in the Church to schism and leave the lavenders and the liberals to their perversions and heresies.

I've heard rumors for years about the liberals breaking off into the "American Catholic church". That would suit me just fine. If you can't stand the rules, the 10 Commandments, the heterosexual overtones, don't try to change it, just go. Lately, I've been hearing: "if they get rid of all the homosexuals in the seminaries, we won't have many priests". I'd rather have less in number who are faithful to the teachings of Jesus. Better to do without non-believing priests. There is evil within but there are still many good Catholics. We just have to realize we're going to have to FIGHT for our faith.

Thanks katt....very sobering.

I've heard rumors for years about the liberals breaking off into the "American Catholic church". That would suit me just fine.

I wish it were true. Alas, no.

Homosexuals are a very, very small percentage (although they lie to inflate their numbers). They don't want their own church. No one would attend, first of all. Second, it would be a joke, and everyone knows it.

They want the "legitimacy" of the Catholic Church, and to get it, they will rot it from within, if necessary.

Urgent,for those in denial please read the following article. I have read "Goodbye Good Men", "The Changing face of the Priesthood", and "Sex, Priests and Power", you don't need much more reading on this subject to realize the depth of the Evil pervading our Church and our Seminaries. In Richard Sipes' book "Sex Priests and Power", aninterview is described wherby a priest interviews 50 Homosexual priests. Of the 50 men only 4 were celibate, 10% had 10 sexual partners and 22% had 500 sexual partners or more. However most of the Faithful Catholics are in denial as to the cause and the enormity of the Problem. *********************************************************** Code: ZE02060622 Date: 2002-06-06 Part 1: The Real Issue Behind the Scandals in U.S. According to Gladys Sweeney of Institute for the Psychological Sciences ARLINGTON, Virginia, JUNE 6, 2002 (Zenit.org).- The key problem involving scandals with priests in the United States isn´t what the media generally lead us to believe, says a Catholic psychologist. Dr. Gladys Sweeney, president and dean of the Institute for the Psychological Sciences, gave her insights into what lies behind the scandals that have rocked the Church in America. Sweeney formerly held a faculty appointment at the Division of Child Psychiatry and Department of Pediatrics at Johns Hopkins Medical School. The second part of this interview will be published next Thursday, June 13. ZENIT: From a psychological standpoint, what is the nature of most of the sex abuse scandals involving priests in the United States? Is it pedophilia? or something else? Sweeney: The major thrust in the reporting of the scandal has focused on cases of pedophilia, that is, attraction of adults to pre-pubescent children. However, upon careful study of the reports, it is clear that the major problem of the current scandal is homosexual ephebophilia -- the attraction of adults to same-sex adolescents. We are talking in this case about a great problem with homosexual behavior. There is some reluctance on the part of the media to emphasize this fact. Tolerance for homosexual behavior across all levels of society is highly encouraged as a principle to be promoted and valued. It is easier to focus on the cases of pedophilia, which elicit strong emotional reaction, rather than on the problem of homosexual behavior. Homosexuality, however, is at the root of this problem. Professor John Haldane, a philosophy professor at the University of St. Andrews who is holding the Royden Davis Chair for Humanities at Georgetown University, distinguishes between homosexual orientation, disposition, and habitual action. Haldane states: "If one has a certain orientation this need not lead to active sexual practice, and whether it does or not depends on the development of inhibition of dispositions." According to Father Richard John Neuhaus, there have been priests, later canonized as saints, who would meet today´s criteria as having a homosexual orientation. According to Neuhaus, the issue then is not the "nature of the temptations resisted, but the fidelity of the resistance." Psychologically speaking then, the issue is to help establish a barrier so as to inhibit the occurrence of the activity, a barrier that follows the orientation, because by the time the dispositions are developed, there is a high likelihood that the activity will be expressed. An 18-year-old candidate for the seminary experiencing homosexual temptations and who is not sure how to handle them is quite different from a 25-year-old that has had homosexual experiences. Even in the case of homosexual orientation in the absence of past experiences, it is important for a formation director to discern whether the individual in question can handle the environment. Prudence is of utmost importance. Let me explain. If someone were struggling with heterosexual temptation, it would not be wise to place him in a situation where he would be in daily close contact with women, eating together, praying together, having recreation together, doing apostolate together, without carefully following the stress engendered by that situation. The same is true for someone with a homosexual orientation. The implications are profound. They include seminaries dedicating great effort to cultivate sexual asceticism; taking an active role in guiding seminarians to discipline their dispositions, whether homosexual or heterosexual; and paying particular attention to the spiritual formation of the candidates with an emphasis on fidelity and on the sacramental life. Q: What are the psychological factors at work behind the scandals? What would prompt a man to commit such acts? Sweeney: In the cases of pedophilia, it is a sexual addiction problem -- a disordered inclination and aberrant behavior that carries with it an addictive and obsessional quality. The causes of pedophilia are not completely understood; however, early sexual trauma, aggravated by compulsive masturbatory behavior accompanied by fantasy later in life, have been associated with the disorder. H.S. Kaplan noted in a 1996 work that early sexually arousing experiences have a tremendous influence in shaping subsequent sexual desires and fantasies. D.R. Laws and W.L. Marshall believe that the effect of early imprinting are then maintained and reinforced by fantasy arousal during masturbation. Pedophilia has been associated with high rates of concomitant psychopathology, particularly mood, anxiety and substance-abuse disorders. M.P. Kafka and R.A. Prentky found that approximately two-thirds of pedophilic patients were diagnosed with mood disorders, about 50% with anxiety disorders, and about 50% with alcohol or substance-abuse problems. The recidivism for this disorder is high. Father Thomas Nelson, executive director of the Institute on Religious Life and professor of philosophy at the Norbertine seminary in Orange, California, states that fewer than 2% of priests have been involved in pedophilia, as compared to 4% of married people and 7% of the general lay population. The statistics show that the problem of pedophilia is no greater among priests than among the general population. At the root of the present scandal is not pedophilia, but homosexuality. Homosexuality as a psychiatric diagnosis has been removed from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, and is now considered as an alternative lifestyle. The genetic nature of homosexuality has been emphasized by the media as an immutable and deterministic fact of nature, which people have no control over. However, a review of the research literature on homosexuality indicates that the genetic etiology of homosexuality has not been confirmed. Many of the earlier studies -- Billings and Beckwith, 1993; Bailey and Pillard, 1995; LeVay, 1991 -- after being evaluated, revealed problematic methodologies. There were confounding factors in the research and clear bias even before the data was collected. For the sake of argument, let´s assume that there is a genetic component -- it does not need to be deterministic. One cannot deny that there is some degree of genetic influence in nearly all human behavior. Alcoholism is known to have genetic basis, yet some people with this predisposition can learn to cope with their weakness by avoiding alcohol dependence. On the other hand, there is a robust body of literature that shows that environmental factors have a great influence over homosexual behavior. D.M. Fergusson, L.J. Horwood and A.L. Beautrais noted in their 1999 study on mental health and sexual orientation, that youth classified as gay, lesbian or bisexual differed from other youth in having had more frequent parental changes, such as divorce, parental death, separation, remarriage, etc. W.C. Holmes and G.P. Slap noted in 1998 that the sexually abused man, when compared with the non-abused man, experiences more gender-role confusion and fear about intimate relationships with both men and women. All of this seems to support the role of psychosocial factors in the development of homosexuality. Research in the last past years has shown that there seems to be a strong relationship between homosexuality and other major psychiatric disorders, suicidal thoughts and suicide attempts, indicating increased risk factors associated specifically with homosexual behavior. Some researchers have come to believe that the "homophobic" explanation alone is not sufficient to explain the relationship between homosexual behavior and major dysfunctions. If anything, the media and the culture have exerted a great influence on increasing people´s tolerance toward homosexual behavior, with no seeming effect in its connection to risk factors. Summarizing, I believe that at the core of the Church´s scandal today is a problem of homosexuality, which although not any longer considered a psychiatric diagnosis by the American Psychiatric and Psychological Association has been linked to other major diagnoses. It may be the end product of influential psychosocial events, in some cases interacting with genetic predispositions. email this article To receive ZENIT News Services by e-mail !

He was even accused many times of leading the younger seminarians away from what the formation staff was trying to instill in them.

A new twist of the phrase "being led astray".

Code: ZE02060622

Date: 2002-06-06

Part 1: The Real Issue Behind the Scandals in U.S.

According to Gladys Sweeney of Institute for the Psychological Sciences

ARLINGTON, Virginia, JUNE 6, 2002 (Zenit.org).- The key problem involving scandals with priests in the United States isn´t what the media generally lead us to believe, says a Catholic psychologist.

Dr. Gladys Sweeney, president and dean of the Institute for the Psychological Sciences, gave her insights into what lies behind the scandals that have rocked the Church in America.

Sweeney formerly held a faculty appointment at the Division of Child Psychiatry and Department of Pediatrics at Johns Hopkins Medical School. The second part of this interview will be published next Thursday, June 13.

ZENIT: From a psychological standpoint, what is the nature of most of the sex abuse scandals involving priests in the United States? Is it pedophilia? or something else?

Sweeney: The major thrust in the reporting of the scandal has focused on cases of pedophilia, that is, attraction of adults to pre-pubescent children. However, upon careful study of the reports, it is clear that the major problem of the current scandal is homosexual ephebophilia -- the attraction of adults to same-sex adolescents.

We are talking in this case about a great problem with homosexual behavior. There is some reluctance on the part of the media to emphasize this fact.

Tolerance for homosexual behavior across all levels of society is highly encouraged as a principle to be promoted and valued. It is easier to focus on the cases of pedophilia, which elicit strong emotional reaction, rather than on the problem of homosexual behavior. Homosexuality, however, is at the root of this problem.

Professor John Haldane, a philosophy professor at the University of St. Andrews who is holding the Royden Davis Chair for Humanities at Georgetown University, distinguishes between homosexual orientation, disposition, and habitual action. Haldane states: "If one has a certain orientation this need not lead to active sexual practice, and whether it does or not depends on the development of inhibition of dispositions."

According to Father Richard John Neuhaus, there have been priests, later canonized as saints, who would meet today´s criteria as having a homosexual orientation. According to Neuhaus, the issue then is not the "nature of the temptations resisted, but the fidelity of the resistance."

Psychologically speaking then, the issue is to help establish a barrier so as to inhibit the occurrence of the activity, a barrier that follows the orientation, because by the time the dispositions are developed, there is a high likelihood that the activity will be expressed.

An 18-year-old candidate for the seminary experiencing homosexual temptations and who is not sure how to handle them is quite different from a 25-year-old that has had homosexual experiences.

Even in the case of homosexual orientation in the absence of past experiences, it is important for a formation director to discern whether the individual in question can handle the environment. Prudence is of utmost importance. Let me explain.

If someone were struggling with heterosexual temptation, it would not be wise to place him in a situation where he would be in daily close contact with women, eating together, praying together, having recreation together, doing apostolate together, without carefully following the stress engendered by that situation. The same is true for someone with a homosexual orientation.

The implications are profound. They include seminaries dedicating great effort to cultivate sexual asceticism; taking an active role in guiding seminarians to discipline their dispositions, whether homosexual or heterosexual; and paying particular attention to the spiritual formation of the candidates with an emphasis on fidelity and on the sacramental life.

Q: What are the psychological factors at work behind the scandals? What would prompt a man to commit such acts?

Sweeney: In the cases of pedophilia, it is a sexual addiction problem -- a disordered inclination and aberrant behavior that carries with it an addictive and obsessional quality.

The causes of pedophilia are not completely understood; however, early sexual trauma, aggravated by compulsive masturbatory behavior accompanied by fantasy later in life, have been associated with the disorder.

H.S. Kaplan noted in a 1996 work that early sexually arousing experiences have a tremendous influence in shaping subsequent sexual desires and fantasies. D.R. Laws and W.L. Marshall believe that the effect of early imprinting are then maintained and reinforced by fantasy arousal during masturbation.

Pedophilia has been associated with high rates of concomitant psychopathology, particularly mood, anxiety and substance-abuse disorders. M.P. Kafka and R.A. Prentky found that approximately two-thirds of pedophilic patients were diagnosed with mood disorders, about 50% with anxiety disorders, and about 50% with alcohol or substance-abuse problems.

The recidivism for this disorder is high. Father Thomas Nelson, executive director of the Institute on Religious Life and professor of philosophy at the Norbertine seminary in Orange, California, states that fewer than 2% of priests have been involved in pedophilia, as compared to 4% of married people and 7% of the general lay population. The statistics show that the problem of pedophilia is no greater among priests than among the general population.

At the root of the present scandal is not pedophilia, but homosexuality.

Homosexuality as a psychiatric diagnosis has been removed from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, and is now considered as an alternative lifestyle.

The genetic nature of homosexuality has been emphasized by the media as an immutable and deterministic fact of nature, which people have no control over. However, a review of the research literature on homosexuality indicates that the genetic etiology of homosexuality has not been confirmed.

Many of the earlier studies -- Billings and Beckwith, 1993; Bailey and Pillard, 1995; LeVay, 1991 -- after being evaluated, revealed problematic methodologies. There were confounding factors in the research and clear bias even before the data was collected.

For the sake of argument, let´s assume that there is a genetic component -- it does not need to be deterministic. One cannot deny that there is some degree of genetic influence in nearly all human behavior. Alcoholism is known to have genetic basis, yet some people with this predisposition can learn to cope with their weakness by avoiding alcohol dependence.

On the other hand, there is a robust body of literature that shows that environmental factors have a great influence over homosexual behavior. D.M. Fergusson, L.J. Horwood and A.L. Beautrais noted in their 1999 study on mental health and sexual orientation, that youth classified as gay, lesbian or bisexual differed from other youth in having had more frequent parental changes, such as divorce, parental death, separation, remarriage, etc.

W.C. Holmes and G.P. Slap noted in 1998 that the sexually abused man, when compared with the non-abused man, experiences more gender-role confusion and fear about intimate relationships with both men and women. All of this seems to support the role of psychosocial factors in the development of homosexuality.

Research in the last past years has shown that there seems to be a strong relationship between homosexuality and other major psychiatric disorders, suicidal thoughts and suicide attempts, indicating increased risk factors associated specifically with homosexual behavior.

Some researchers have come to believe that the "homophobic" explanation alone is not sufficient to explain the relationship between homosexual behavior and major dysfunctions. If anything, the media and the culture have exerted a great influence on increasing people´s tolerance toward homosexual behavior, with no seeming effect in its connection to risk factors.

Summarizing, I believe that at the core of the Church´s scandal today is a problem of homosexuality, which although not any longer considered a psychiatric diagnosis by the American Psychiatric and Psychological Association has been linked to other major diagnoses. It may be the end product of influential psychosocial events, in some cases interacting with genetic predispositions.

Worth repeating: Don't give up yet!

The whole message of Christianity is being hijacked by this minority of homosexuals who want to destroy the Christianity from within.

The Catholic Church in particular has been targetted but this is hitting all sects of Christianity. I'm not Catholic and I can tell you without hesitation that Catholicism isn't the problem, but that's what the liberal media would like you to believe. We are all in a battle for the very soul of this nation and all of our children right now. I have to echo what I just read above and agree, the militant homosexual movement has coordinated it's move with along with the greatest assault of evil over good that we have witnessed in recent times.

The last great war was fought some 50 years ago against the evils of facist Socialists in Europe and Asia. Our "Greatest generation" fought for their very existence. Now we are entering a new war, but the battle is literally for our souls and those of our children.

If anyone ever doubted it, evil is a very real and powerful force on this earth. The homosexual mafia is just one more face of it.

Chill, Ivan. Here is my take, FWIW, c.f. the passage below:

Jesus warns of the Islamists, as false prophets, "who will deceive many."

Christian missionaries are being persecuted in greater and greater numbers, as in the Phillipines now.

He says that abuse of children is "an abomination" worthy of the millstone treatment, because He knew the hierarchy in 2002 would try to wiggle out of it, just as they are doing right now with their two-strike mulligan philosophy (this is elsewhere in the New Testament).

"Wars and rumors of wars". Pick one.

"Nation will rise up against nation..."

'Even the elect will almost be led astray, if that were possible.' Seriously, a lot of good, believing, Catholic people I know are at a point now where they would never have dreamed of being one year ago. They consider bailing.

The one thing I don't get is a pivot point mentioned in Matthew, where Jesus refers to "the abomination of desolation, mentioned in the Book of Daniel."

When THAT happens, things really should start to happen.

What is the abomination of desolation?

Is it the recent desecration of the Church of the Nativity, done with impunity, by the islamo-satanists?

Of reams of Old Testament prophesies, Jesus singles this passage out of Daniel.

Does Jesus hereby predict nuclear war, following the abomination?

Anyway, the challenges to our faith are unprecedented, but we must not abandon our faith. Hang in there dude.

Regards, caddie.

"4 Then Jesus replied to them: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Messiah,' and they will deceive many. 6 You are going to hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, because these things must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these events are the beginning of birth pains. 9 "Then they will hand you over to persecution, and they will kill you. You will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 Then many will take offense, betray one another and hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will multiply, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end, this one will be delivered. 14 This good news of the kingdom will be proclaimed in all the world as a testimony to all nations. And then the end will come. 15 "So when you see the abomination that causes desolation , spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place" (let the reader understand), 16 "then those in Judea must flee to the mountains! 17 A man on the housetop must not come down to get things out of his house. 18 And a man in the field must not go back to get his clothes. 19 Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days! 20 Pray that your escape may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For at that time there will be great tribulation, the kind that hasn't taken place since the beginning of the world until now, and never will again! 22 Unless those days were cut short, no one would survive. But because of the elect those days will be cut short. 23 "If anyone tells you then, 'Look, here is the Messiah!' or, 'Over here!' do not believe it! 24 False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 Take note: I have told you in advance. 26 So if they tell you, 'Look, he's in the wilderness!' don't go out; 'Look, he's in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever the carcass is, there the vultures will gather. 29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days, The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed her light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the celestial powers will be shaken. 30 "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the land will mourn; and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other." from the Gospel according to Saint Matthew.

Makes me want to puke. The devil attacks the Bride of Christ. I'm proud to say Mr. Rose is a member of my church.

WriteOn

Try: http://www.presentation.ministries

That's White Flight at its best. No fight, just run. Put on your spiritual armor, the Armor of God and fight back. It's spiritual warfare.

The Greek Orthodox Church went through a homosexual scandal in the theological school a few years ago leading to the dismissal of the Archbishop Spyridon of North and South America who had attempted to cover it up. These things happen but I am afraid not to the extent that the Roman Catholic Church has allowed these monsters to have free reign. This latest mega scandal in the Roman Church proves that the leadership is corrupt and that goes all the way to the vatican.

The whole message of Christianity is being hijacked by this minority of homosexuals who want to destroy the Christianity from within.

You are on target here. Hopefully this will lead to a rejuvenation of righteousness in the Holy Christian Church. I hope....

Dear MadIvan, I know how you feel....a member of my family left the R.C.Church with similar feelings about 2 years ago now. She is quite content with the Orthodox Church. I must add that the Orthodox do have some differences in Doctrine with the Roman Church. One should investigate whether you can accept those differences. Prayers would also help in this matter.