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Horowitz gets some of the best columnists!
1 posted on 06/07/2002 8:31:09 AM PDT by mhking
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To: mhking
The tremendous success that has driven Western civilization is secularism.....

Ahem, not quite, Jaime.

"It would be peculiarly improper to omit, in this first official act, my fervent supplication to that Almighty Being, who rules over the universe, who presides in the councils of nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States. . . . No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand which conducts the affairs of men more than the people of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency. . . . We ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right, which Heaven itself has ordained." -- George Washington, in his first inaugural address (April 30, 1789), reprinted in The Writings of George Washington, ed. John C. Fitzpatrick (Washington: United States Government Printing Office, 1931-44),vol. 30, pp. 292-6.

"Religion, or the duty we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and, therefore, that all men should enjoy the fullest toleration in the exercise of religion according to the dictates of conscience, unpunished and unrestrained by the magistrate, unless under color of religion any man disturb the peace, the happiness, or safety of society, and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other." -- James Madison, ca. 1789, cited in Gaillard Hunt, James Madison and Religious Liberty (Washington: American Historical Association, Government Printing Office, 1902), p. 166.


3 posted on 06/07/2002 8:40:26 AM PDT by ppaul
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To: mhking
Fatwa is only compulsory to the author as he says so.

The Koran does not say that any idiot can spout a self-decreed "fatwah" compulsory to all Islams.

Thus, at least two "Islamic" countries disowned, debarred, and expelled Osama and his "fatwa".

4 posted on 06/07/2002 8:41:05 AM PDT by KirklandJunction
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To: mhking
Wow and I thought it was because American women don't wear Burkas.

But maybe they just hate Clinton's version of 'Democracy'. Seems like when Bush, the elder, left office he handed on an Islam coalition. Obviously Democracy was not hated then. Maybe what Clinton did in his eight years might have something to do with the way Islam feels.

5 posted on 06/07/2002 8:46:03 AM PDT by ex-snook
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To: mhking
The tremendous success that has driven Western civilization is secularism.

I am more inclined to the opinion that this success is more a result of free-market capitalism than religious orientation; its counterpart in theology is a religious laissez faire that in the U.S. has come to be regarded as "separation of church and state."

In Islam no such distinction exists. Islamic law subsumes what in the west is both the laws of God and civil law as well. In its infancy Islam was not incompatible with democracy or any other form of government - there were no imams, no ayatollahs, and every man's interpretation of the Koran was as good as anyone else's. That changed, and what came to be Doctors of Islam were not only its "church fathers," but its civil judges and arbiters as well.

The upshot was theocracy, and it is theocracy per se that is incompatible with democracy, IMHO - St. Augustine certainly thought so, as did other early fathers of the Christian church. Where the law of God is specific in either the Bible or the Koran there is no difficulty in interpretation; where it is not somebody must interpret, and here the law of God ineluctably becomes the law of men. Therein lies the problem.

7 posted on 06/07/2002 8:48:16 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: mhking
Good Essay. Bump!

To Islamists: So you want a Jihad, do you? Wellllllllllllllllllllllll, we'll give you a Jihad.

8 posted on 06/07/2002 8:48:57 AM PDT by DoctorMichael
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To: mhking
We shouldn't have to worry then, as the U.S. is not a democracy...
9 posted on 06/07/2002 8:51:43 AM PDT by Junior
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To: mhking
Actually,in strict technical terms,the Palestinian Authority is a democracy,and I think Bahrain also is.If Egypt isn't up to snuff,how come we are sending them so much aid(US)?Is Pakistan a democracy,maybe a joke one.
14 posted on 06/07/2002 9:17:12 AM PDT by Aleksandar Vojvoda
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To: mhking
Islam cannot reform and still remain Islam.

That's it in a nutshell. Few people seem to understand this because most journalists don't understand this.

Little has changed since this was written for the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia:

In matters political Islam is a system of despotism at home and aggression abroad. The Prophet commanded absolute submission to the imâm. In no case was the sword to be raised against him. The rights of non-Moslem subjects are of the vaguest and most limited kind, and a religious war is a sacred duty whenever there is a chance of success against the "Infidel". Medieval and modern Mohammedan, especially Turkish, persecutions of both Jews and Christians are perhaps the best illustration of this fanatical religious and political spirit.

27 posted on 06/07/2002 11:26:46 AM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: dennisw; OKCSubmariner; watchin; VOA; harpseal; timestax; xJones; justshutupandtakeit; TopDog2...
Ping

If people want on or off this list, please let me know.

28 posted on 06/07/2002 11:47:42 AM PDT by knighthawk
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To: mhking
"We had to kill him, because he attacked our beliefs."

"Life of Brian" anyone?

Brian: "I am not the Messiah!"
Bannerchaser: "The true Messiah denies his divinity."
Brian: "What!? What chance does that give me?"

And the beat goes on...

30 posted on 06/07/2002 11:58:59 AM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: mhking
Part of it is just pure jealousy. Jealous of our wealth, and scared of out FREEDOMS!!
31 posted on 06/07/2002 12:13:27 PM PDT by timestax
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To: mhking
Good find.

...and thanks for the headsup knight!

32 posted on 06/07/2002 1:51:59 PM PDT by AmericanCheeseFood
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To: mhking;knighthawk
And it is no mystery why the worlds of competition and commerce have spawned economic success stories in places like Japan

There seem to be great similarities between Japan prior to and during WWII and present Muslim attitudes.

The Western nations realized the importance of secularization of Japan (the emperor's denouncement of his divine nature in 1946.).

Political Correctness run amok seems to be depriving the Western nations of the ability to make a common sense judgment that was patently obvious 57 years ago. It's the religion, stupid.

Japan's Rightist military ruling elite saw their nation as a harmonious family under a divine father, the emperor. They saw Japan as spiritual and the one divine nation on earth, which helped serve as a rationale for domination of others. The destiny of Japan, they believed, had been outlined by the gods and nothing could stop Japan from becoming the greatest empire on earth. In contrast, they believed, the Koreans were eaten by vices, the Chinese were corrupted by opium and other narcotics, and their old enemy the Russians were corrupted by their vodka. These were men from an agricultural and military tradition, and they saw the capitalist West as materialistic, egoistic and founded on exploitation and personal profit. Some Rightists in Japan were using the old notion that war was basically the work of greedy men in search of profits. This and the spiritual superiority of the Japanese was expressed by the poet Takamura Kotaro just after the attack on Pearl Harbor:

33 posted on 06/07/2002 2:33:03 PM PDT by Madame Dufarge
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To: mhking
Plato "hated" Democracy.

Somehow, the West managed to survive him.

37 posted on 06/09/2002 7:32:05 PM PDT by cicero's_son
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