The Blue Marlin, the ship that ferried the USS Cole from Yemen back to the USA, was built by China Shipbuilding in Kaohsiung, Republic of China (or Taiwan, if you prefer).
Posted on 06/06/2002 9:52:35 PM PDT by Enemy Of The State
KAOHSIUNG
The China Shipbuilding Corp (¤¤²î) is capable of building conventional submarines if the US is willing to provide the technological assistance and design blueprints, a spokesman for the state-owned firm said yesterday.
Company spokesman Fan Kuang-nan (S¥ú¨k) was res-ponding to Defense Minister Tang Yao-ming's (´öÂ`©ú) remarks Wednesday. Tang said that he was concerned about the question of which party would be held responsible in the event of any mishap during the testing procedure, if the submarines were to be built by local contractors.
Fan said shipbuilding engineers and technicians from Germany and the Netherlands, both of which are noted for their submarine-construction technology and experience, have recognized China Shipbuilding's potential for building submarines on its own during previous visits to the firm.
"We believe that our company would be able to build conventional submarines as long as the US provided us with certain technological assistance and design blueprints," Fan said. "Of course, we would also need to purchase some new shipbuilding equipment and facilities," he added.
The US has agreed to sell Taiwan eight diesel-powered submarines.
The Legislative Yuan has passed a proposal to demand that the defense ministry push US authorities to assist the China Shipbuilding Co in building the first two submarines in Taiwan and then transfer the technical know-how for the company to build the remaining six submarines on its own.
During a meeting of the legislature's Defense Committee Wednesday, Tang said the military had invariably supported the policy of self-sufficiency in defense-related technological development.
Tang has promised that Taiwan's delegation to negotiate the submarine deal with the US will include staff members of China Shipbuilding.
Senior China Shipbuilding executives have paid visits to the legislature, the Ministry of National Defense and the Navy General Headquarters to seek their respective support for securing the submarine contract and the transfer of US technology.
China Shipbuilding's labor union has also been lobbying for legislative and military support for the company's drive to win the contract to build the submarines.
The US Defense Department received initial offers for Tai-wan's submarine deal from several defense contractors last November.
The Pentagon originally planned to send a delegation to Taipei in March this year to brief Taiwan officials on the submarine construction blueprints presented by prospective contractors, but the planned visit has since been delayed many times.
Newport does not currently build any diesel subs. Buying the design from the Germans makes sense.
Last time I checked Northorp and Grumman were still primarily aircraft designers. True, they operate Newport News Shipbuilding Co., but that is a manufacturer of Nuke Boats. Their expertise wouldn't get them much past the hull design since there hasn't been a suitable diesel-electric system since the '50's here in the US.
The major cost of new weapons systems is the design work. That is why there was so much todo about the Army scrapping the Crusader Artillery System -- the design was already paid.
Besides, conventional boats don't have unlimited power generation capacity. They must therefore have smaller displacement, crew size -- everything. You can't just take the hull plan of a Nuke and slap a diesel-electric plant in it. Just imagine trying to mount a snorkel in the Conning tower layout.
IF.... The Germans still haven't perfected the hydrogen peroxide propulsion last I heard. They are working on it, however...
If you are Taiwan, you want the subs ASAP for their deterrent effect. You might not want to rely on German intentions (they could just say that their were continuing problems with the h-p reactors). The Germans have already shown themselves suseptible to PRC pressure.
Taiwan has been flirting with the Collins (Australian) design as a fallback, but I think that they'd rather have the Type 209 (German).
Also, I never implied that a nuke design be adapted for this requirement. Obviously, this would be something new for NG/NNS, but certainly within their capabilities.
The only countries that are doing a good job of building modern diesel subs are the British (Upholder class), the French, the Dutch, the Germans, the Italians, the Japanese, the Swedes, and the Russians.
The Russians are providing technology and even subs to the Chinese.
The French have decided to sell Sonar tech to the ChiComs.
The Swedes and the Germans both make excellent subs for shallow waters. Sweden just built the Collins class for the Aussies. They are leaders in Air Independent Propuslion.
The Germans seem to by selling the 209 class to anyone who will purchase them. Greece, Israel, Singapore!, and India all buy them.
The Japanes build their own modern subs. While they have financial ties with Red China, it is in Japans interest that China is constrained and does not become the dominant naval power in the region. I'm sure the Japs will help.
Yeah...i gathered that...he is a strange bird
The Blue Marlin, the ship that ferried the USS Cole from Yemen back to the USA, was built by China Shipbuilding in Kaohsiung, Republic of China (or Taiwan, if you prefer).
It's political. The Chinese visit a whole lot of wrath on the EU nations for weapons exports; we're big enough to get by with it. NG would presumably be handling the "legislative liason" part.
For example sometime ago i had to compare their two airforces....and that threw me off for a couple of seconds! For example the China-Chinese (Red China) airforce is the PLAAF (People's Liberation Army Air-Force), while the Taiwanese airforce is the ROCAF (Republic of China Air-Force).
At first i had thought ROCAF was the Chinese airforce before it danwed on me it was actually Taiwanese!
No wonder China believes Taiwan is its province and wants to take it back! :)
The AIP system uses a fuel cell equipped with hydrogen and oxygen storage, as well as several Polymer Electrolyte Membranes (PEM) fuel cells; and this AIP is connected to the 'normal' conventional system with a diesel generator with a lead-acid battery.
This system, especially for nations like Taiwan and India who really do not need to travel far in their subs, is amazingly good technology since it gives their subs great capabilities. And those subs can be quite deadly to enemy ships (read Pakistani and Chinese ships for the two countries mentioned).
And several submarine designs actually employ AIP systems. For example the Swedish SSK Gotland Class ( Type A-19), the Russian Kilo Class (the newer Kilos have the AIP , eg the ones India is getting upgrades in. I am not sure whether the Chinese hulls have received any such upgrades); and the French Agosta 90-B (the versions being sold to Pakistan are being up-graded with the MESMA AIP system, probably to counter the Indian Kilo upgrades).
However i do think the reason Taiwan is coming to the US for a Diesel submarine is probably due to pressure from China to other nations that sell such subs to not sell to Taiwan.
Currently China has the edge on Taiwan in terms of submarine capability, both in quality and quantity! The Republic of China Navy, ROCN (which is actually the Taiwanese Navy. confusing isn't it. The Red Chinese Navy is the PLAN).anyway the Taiwanese navy ROCN only has two hull desings, the Guppy Class(basically obsolete, and obsolete for decades now) and the Chien Lung (derived from the Dutch Zwaardvis design and is quite advanced, however Taiwan only got two hulls due to pressure from China).
However i still think them turning to the US is due to more pressure from China to other nations that supply diesel subs (although why they cannot go to Australia or Israel for the subs does not compute)
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