(Taiwan's) China Shipbuilding says it can build submarines if given the specifications

Taipei Times ^ | 6/7/02

[Enemy Of The State]

China Shipbuilding says it can build submarines if given the specifications

CNA

KAOHSIUNG
The China Shipbuilding Corp (¤¤²î) is capable of building conventional submarines if the US is willing to provide the technological assistance and design blueprints, a spokesman for the state-owned firm said yesterday.

Company spokesman Fan Kuang-nan (­S¥ú¨k) was res-ponding to Defense Minister Tang Yao-ming's (´öÂ`©ú) remarks Wednesday. Tang said that he was concerned about the question of which party would be held responsible in the event of any mishap during the testing procedure, if the submarines were to be built by local contractors.

Fan said shipbuilding engineers and technicians from Germany and the Netherlands, both of which are noted for their submarine-construction technology and experience, have recognized China Shipbuilding's potential for building submarines on its own during previous visits to the firm.

"We believe that our company would be able to build conventional submarines as long as the US provided us with certain technological assistance and design blueprints," Fan said. "Of course, we would also need to purchase some new shipbuilding equipment and facilities," he added.

The US has agreed to sell Taiwan eight diesel-powered submarines.

The Legislative Yuan has passed a proposal to demand that the defense ministry push US authorities to assist the China Shipbuilding Co in building the first two submarines in Taiwan and then transfer the technical know-how for the company to build the remaining six submarines on its own.

During a meeting of the legislature's Defense Committee Wednesday, Tang said the military had invariably supported the policy of self-sufficiency in defense-related technological development.

Tang has promised that Taiwan's delegation to negotiate the submarine deal with the US will include staff members of China Shipbuilding.

Senior China Shipbuilding executives have paid visits to the legislature, the Ministry of National Defense and the Navy General Headquarters to seek their respective support for securing the submarine contract and the transfer of US technology.

China Shipbuilding's labor union has also been lobbying for legislative and military support for the company's drive to win the contract to build the submarines.

The US Defense Department received initial offers for Tai-wan's submarine deal from several defense contractors last November.

The Pentagon originally planned to send a delegation to Taipei in March this year to brief Taiwan officials on the submarine construction blueprints presented by prospective contractors, but the planned visit has since been delayed many times.

[lewislynn]

Nope. I smell a deceptive post.

It's not deceptive. The link takes you to the exact title as originally posted.

Who took it upon themselves to alter the original title with "(Taiwan's)"?

[Jean S]

Reply #2 is deceptive, not the title or the article or the link. This is a Taiwanese company, not China.

[John H K]

Not deceptive, just further proof of how many people on FR don't actually read ARTICLES, they just read HEADLINES, and then post.

Which is pretty silly and you'll eventually end up embarassing yourself, as all of the people with their righteous indignation about the US giving technology to the "Chicoms" and dredging up Clinton references have done in this thread.

It's blatantly obvious from the article that China Shipbuilding is in Taiwan, and with anyone knowledgeable about Taiwan (another problem with FR is people holding forth with their opinions about countries and areas of the world they know diddy squat about) would know that it's not unusual for things in Taiwan to be called the "China XXXXX Company" and so forth.

In fact, the name of the country is the "Republic of China" and they consider themselves the rightful government of all of China. The Chicoms are the "People's Republic of China."

[DETAILER]

OK...so if the Chinese try to invade Taiwan with troops on tanker ships and freighters, the Taiwanese subs will have lots of big, fat, slow targets, and they can send a million Chinese troops to the bottom of the ocean. Personally I have no problem with this. Give them the plans.

[Enemy Of The State]

Actually your not as smart as you think you are. I read the article before I posted it but I didnt know that China Shipbuilding was a Taiwanese company until Tallhappy pointed that out and until I read it a second time to catch the defense ministers name that the article was referring to. :-P

[Honcho]

Why would we give technological assistance to a country that has threatened to nuke LA (my personal feelings about LA aside)?

That was China, not Taiwan.

[Honcho]

My understanding is that sub is so quiet that it escapes our acoustic detection technology.

No. The subs we are talking about selling them are quiet but not above detection and they have serious limitations. The boomers that we have now are so quite they make no noise. I was a FTB in the Navy back in the early 90's and I asked one of the sonar guys about tracking the Ohio class subs we have. He said that they are so quiet that the trick to detecting them is to listen for a void in the water.

[tallhappy]

John H K is one of the more reprehensible types around here.

There is something wrong with him.

[tallhappy]

...they consider themselves the rightful government of all of China.

What year you think this is?

You are at least 10 years out of date.

[Tallguy]

Why would we give technological assistance to a country that has threatened to nuke LA...

Check the source: China Shipbuilding is evidently a Taiwanese corporation! The Republic of China (refered to as Taiwan in US Sources) calls itself "China." I have found that you have to be careful with these kind of news stories because both sides routinely refer to themselves as "China."

[Tallguy]

How long has it been since the US build a diesel-powered submarine? The 1950s.

Yes, but there was a thread earlier in the week stating that Grumman-Northrup just purchased the German company that builds the (diesel electric) type 209 sub -- a very capable design. So you see, the Germans object to the sale of the subs, but they have no problem selling the entire sub-builder. As I understand it, the American/German ownership is something like 95% (US) versus 5% (German). Now if the Germans still refuse to give permission to build the subs, Northrup-Grumman can take the designs elsewhere.

[Tallguy]

If they fire torpedoes or cruise missiles, they are probably dead meat. I think that the most likely role for the subs will be as minelayers. With these subs the Taiwanese can effectively close the mainland ports from which any invasion can be staged, or lay a cordon across the likely invasion beaches. Slip In, Dump your payload, slip out. Wait for the Boom!

[Palmetto]

I too could build a submarine "if given the specifications".

I seriously mean no offense by this, but

No way.

[Paleo Conservative]

Yes, but there was a thread earlier in the week stating that Grumman-Northrup just purchased the German company that builds the (diesel electric) type 209 sub -- a very capable design.

My main point in my response was to explain why the US would help Taiwan build diesel submarines in Taiwan instead of buying them already built in the US.

[DETAILER]

If they fire torpedoes or cruise missiles, they are probably dead meat. I think that the most likely role for the subs will be as minelayers. With these subs the Taiwanese can effectively close the mainland ports from which any invasion can be staged, or lay a cordon across the likely invasion beaches. Slip In, Dump your payload, slip out. Wait for the Boom!

That would probably be the best thing..I'll agree with you. These subs probably don't have the speed or diving ability to really escape destroyers. And I imagine the Chinese do have destroyers. I wonder how deep the water is between China and Taiwan....

[Paleo Conservative]

That would probably be the best thing..I'll agree with you. These subs probably don't have the speed or diving ability to really escape destroyers. And I imagine the Chinese do have destroyers. I wonder how deep the water is between China and Taiwan....

If they used hydrogen peroxide to supply oxygen, the diesel engines could be used while the submarine is submerged. This would allow high speed escape from destroyers similar to the capabilities of nuclear submarines. The Germans were starting to deploy U-Boats with hydrogen peroxide tanks at the end of WWII. Fortunately they didn't have them earlier.

[Quick Shot]

Agreed, but I almost doubt China Shipbuilding.

There are some very, very capable companies is Taiwan, but China Shipbuilding is not one of them. Taiwan is very good a small specialized companies. Putting many technologies is not their specialty.

Note they build most of the doors for Japan's automobiles, but they can not build a car.

[Quick Shot]

and me putting together complete sentance stucture is a challange (too hell with spelling)

[Al B.]

Now if the Germans still refuse to give permission to build the subs, Northrup-Grumman can take the designs elsewhere.

NG doesn't need any German company to help them design and build subs. They have Newport News Shipbuilding -- currently building Virginia-class boats.

While I can understand buying the German design to conserve stretched-out engineering resources here in the US, I don't understand why NG would buy a German design, then turn around and have the boats built in Taiwan.  What's in it for them?